Talk:History of Jordan

Right now, this is ripped right from the article on Jordan itself. It should be changed or else its a prime vfd candidate. --Use stop 05:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This does not mention the military campaigns led by Moses in ancient Jordan. Is there no archaeology to support this? The tribes of Gad and Reuben were assigned land in what is now Jordan. The half-tribe of Manasseh also gained land on the East Bank after Moses conquered ancient Transjordan. Iosef aetos 16:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Just came across this article.... It seems that Jordan has absolutely no history until 1920 since long before the time of christ. Surely though this isn't true...- Wasn't there the Roman Empire, various Arab dynasties, etc...--Him and a dog 12:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

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Hi. What are the most common periodisations used in and for Jordan? I am familiar with those most commonly used for Israel/Palestine, but there are of course differences addressing Jordanian particularities (the semiarid West vs the more arid East and South, conquering powers arriving and staying for slightly different intervals of time, etc.) There are probably events which set the starting and end date for each period, which vary slightly in the wider region.

A clear mainstream periodisation for Jordan would be the ideal outcome of the discussion I'm trying to start here. That could then be applied to all the individual history sections of every article about Jordanian cities, archaeological sites and so on.

There is a discussion on whether the term "medieval/Middle Ages" even applies to the Middle East (arguments: middle between what? Late Antiquity lingered on for longer, there never was a Renaissance in the European meaning, the feudal system was specifically European and only came with the Crusaders). How does it play out in Jordanian academia? I see a far too long "Medieval period" in the article, but that's a frequent mistake.

What do the terms Early / Middle / Late Islamic period mean? Are these terms used in Jordan, are they mainstream, are they outdated? How are these periods defined? When do they start and end? They do show up in articles about Jordan, but I cannot find a periodisation offering the basic meaning. (I have tried to start a discussion on this specific topic at Talk:Timeline of Islamic history).

Further down a few definitions and a skeleton for a start.

Thanks.

Before Present (BP)
Before Common Era (BCE)
kya = kilo years ago = 1000 years ago

List of archaeological periods (Levant) is a good start.

There are differences between archaeological and historical periods, but that's not the first concern here.
Archaeological periods are defined by material culture, historical periods by societal, government and other criteria which don't necessarily coincide with visible changes in the archaeological record.

Archaeological periods in the region:

• Prehistory (no writing; only stone tools)
• Ancient (see Near East); basically Bronze and Iron Ages; metal, writing appear.
• Classical (usually Alexander to Muslim conquest; age of classical empires/cultures)
• Islamic and medieval (discussion: medieval = Crusader period?)

Archaeological periods of Jordan after Homès-Fredericq and Hennessy (1986)

• Hellenistic 332 – 63 BCE

---

• Nabataean-Early Roman 63 BCE – 106 CE
• Late Roman 106 – 324

---

• Early Byzantine 324 – 491
• Late Byzantine 491 – 634

---

• Islamic 634 onwards

More in detail
Palaeolithic period (Stone Age)

    Early/Lower
    Middle
    Late/Upper 

Epipalaeolithic [synonymous or not (interpretation!) with Mesolithic] Neolithic period

    Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN)
         Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA)
         Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB)
    Pottery (PN)

Chalcolithic period (Copper Age)l some see it as part of Bronze Age

    Early
    Middle+Late

Bronze Age

    Early Bronze Age (EB)
         Early Bronze IA (EB IA)
         Early Bronze IB (EB IB)
         Early Bronze II (EB II)
         Early Bronze III (EB III)
    Intermediate Bronze Age (alternatively seen as EB IV, EB-MB, MBI)
    Middle Bronze Age (MB)
         Middle Bronze IIA (MB IIA)
         Middle Bronze IIB (MB IIB)
    Late Bronze Age (LB)
         Late Bronze I (LB I)
         Late Bronze IIA (LB IIA)
         Late Bronze IIB (LB IIB)

Iron Age

    Iron Age IA (IA)
    Iron Age IB (IA IB)
    Iron Age IIA (IA IIA)
    Iron Age IIB (IA IIB)
    Iron Age IIC (IA IIC)

[Neo-]Assyrian (often left out), [Neo-]Babylonian, Persian periods [Classical antiquity often seen to start with Hellenistic period] Hellenistic period

         Early Hellenistic
         Late Hellenistic

Roman period

         Early Roman period
         Late Roman period

Byzantine period

         Early Byzantine period
         Late Byzantine period

[Islamic and medieval periods start here] Early Muslim/Arab period

         Muslim conquest
         Rashidun period
         Umayyad period
         Abbasid period [+Fatimid, Seljuk etc.]

Crusader/Ayyubid period Ayyubid/Mamluk period Ottoman period

         Early Ottoman period
         Late Ottoman period

British Mandate period
Independence

ALTERNATIVELY:
Modern period, including (part of) Late Ottoman and all the following

Discussions of special interest for Jordan:

• When can we speak of Bronze Age kingdoms; nomadic kingdoms?
• Edomite settlement area. Babylonian defeat of Judah, westward move, term "Idumean" more than a Greek adaptation of "Edomite?"
• Nabataeans: different concept of rule over territory (nomadic traits, trade, controlling routes vs settling outside heartland), Nabataean identity long after 106
• interaction with Hasmoneans, Jews and Samaritans in general during Persian & Hellenistic periods (see Tobiads)
• Ghassanids
• Seljuks: often included in Abbasid period, but not quite accurate
• Fatimids: not enough attention offered
• Local tribal rule, feuds: central power at times only nominal, local rule more relevant
• Christian life under Muslim rule: Christian Bedouins! with hereditary priesthood until 19th, maybe 20th c.
• Crusader-Muslim condominiums (less consensus lately)
• Crusader-Ayyubid-Mamluk transitions and overlaps
• WWI and transition to Mandate, wider context with Arabia, Syria, Iraq Arminden (talk) 00:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Nothing, nobody?

A reliable periodisation for the area corresponding to modern Jordan is missing - and essential.

There was an attempt made at Jordan Archaeological Museum#Time periods represented, but

• it's sub-standard
• that's not the right place for this
• I have tried to initiate a discussion on that article's talk-page 3.5 years ago, but nobody joined in, same like here.

A list of archaeological and historical periods is a must, it's needed for all articles about Jordan. The point is finding out what is the mainstream periodisation = the one used by most, most recent, and most reliable academic sources. If there is such a thing.

For the Palestine region, which includes most history-intensive parts of Jordan, there is such a page:

Timeline of the Palestine region

It fits West Jordan almost perfectly, but not 100%, and East and South Jordan much less. I don't know about periodisation standards for Syria and the Hejaz, which would probably apply in those areas. Anyone who knows about those? Not sure if there can be a unified, coordinated periodisation for all regions of Jordan.

The Jordanian academia and Antiquities Dept. must have developed a list of periods (maybe different regional lists), as do Western universities doing research in Jordan: those can be our sources. Who has access? Arminden (talk) 12:14, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

I will be changing the dating system on this article away from the biased, Christian based AD/BC to the common era system.  This will bring the article into alignment with secular usage such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India.  If you object, please state why you are ok with the biased system here. Eupnevma (talk) 19:54, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Before you go changing AC BC please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style, specifically MOS:VAR. Also, instead of hundreds of discussions regarding the changes on hundreds of different talk pages, get a conversation going here: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Thanks! Masterhatch (talk) 20:30, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

It's inconceivable to me that the "Middle Ages" period is summarized in three small paragraphs, and still more that the "Ottoman Period" is a single large paragraph. There is more history to the caravans that passed through this country than what is written in this page as of March 2024. LINFAN01 (talk) 13:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

In this edit, made by a now blocked editor (Tombah) referenced a book which has limited online access. It is not clear what area the sentence "By the late Hellenistic period, the area had a mixed population of Jews, Greeks, Nabataeans, other Arabs, and descendants of Ammonites" refers to. The cited book deals with Herod, so to me the sentence seems to refer to the Herodian realm + Nabataea, but one cannot be sure until we check the source. Does anyone have access? Google Books has the 1st edition, but page numbers don't correspond (see p. 231). Now we have 3 sentences one after the other, each covering its own, different area: Transjordan; the Levantine coast +Transjordan; and an unknown area: this creates confusion. The sentence I've added (on Levantine coast +Transjordan) covers the period from 332/323 and 301 BCE and is definitely needed, as it clarifies that there is no data on Transjordan (and more) from the time of Alexander and the ca. 2.5 decades after his death, so it cannot be removed.

Thank you! Arminden (talk) 08:54, 11 May 2025 (UTC)