Talk:Indochinese tiger

There's a story in this article about an enormous tiger that theoretically terrorized some Vietnamese villages before being shot. The original version of this story read like pulp fiction so I tried to condense it and make it more formal, but I'm not sure if this story is true. Can anyone provide a source for it? -UberMan5000 18:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe it to be true. The fact that we don't have a source doesn't mean it didn't happen. I mean, there was an entire village that suffered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.93.236 (talk) 23:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed

Can some please cite the fallowingPhatom87 ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Indochinese tigers are very powerful. In Vietnam, there is a documented case of a large male that was killed in 1984 near the Vietnam-Laos border. This tiger, with a total length of 2.8 m (9 ft) and a total weight of about 250 kg (550 lb), had terrorized villages in its territory for a number of years before being killed. It had killed over ten buffaloes in the villages, despite the villager's attempts to stop it. When one village built a 3 meter(9.8 ft)fence around the cattle enclosure, the tiger managed to jump this fence, kill a calf, and jump back over, holding the 60 kg (130 lb) animal in its mouth. The tiger was finally killed when villagers set up a gun trap on a discarded buffalo carcass, which the tiger set off when he tried to take the buffalo away. The tiger's body was found by a stream about 2 kilometres (1.2 miles) away from the trap site, meaning that the tiger could still go that far after suffering a mortal wound.

This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2013 Q3. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Louisiana State University/HNRS 1035:Natural Disturbances and Society" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

@UberMan5000 and Phatom87: I have a different account about a man-eating tiger in the vicinity of Saigon, which was shot in 1934 by an American sportsman called "Henry Clay Foster," with the aid of Albert Plas, and measured 500 lb (230 kilograms) in weight and 11.5 ft (350 centimetres) in length (likely in total, rather than between the pegs), but this reference may not be seen as being reliable.^[1] Leo1pard (talk) 15:50, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

References

1. [1]

   "Sportsman kills man-eating tiger". The Reading Eagle. 1934-10-26. Retrieved 2018-01-25.

I removed some words in the article that vandalized it. Telemachus Claudius Rhade 17:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The photo of Houston's animal needs to be removed as Houston does not have an Indochinese but rather a Malayan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbnbsn99 (talk • contribs) 22:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

As part of an assignment for the class HNRS 1035 through Louisiana State University, I am contributing to this existing article in order to expand and add to the already existing information and provide further citations and sources for the reader. Rosamevel (talk) 19:46, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

The image in the Ibox has been changed to an occupant of the Zoological Garden Berlin, Germany, due to a claim made earlier on this talk page. Because of the recent designation of the Malay subspecies, the images we have may be incorrectly named – I'm not even completely sure that the present image in the Ibox is not a Malayan rather than a Corbett. The images involved in this controversy can be found in:

Category:Panthera tigris, specifically in...

Category:Panthera tigris corbetti and...

Category:Panthera tigris jacksoni (Malayan tiger).

Thank you for any help you can give to confirm the identity of these tigers! – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 17:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

All tigers in captivity in Europe and America that were labelled as corbetti are actually jacksoni, so the animal in the photo is actually a Malayan. Here's a resource too:

http://zootierliste.de/en/?klasse=1&ordnung=115&familie=11508&art=1120922

BronxZooFan (talk) 19:26, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Sources and info revealed that the Indochinese tigers' population had always estimated at about 350 individuals, the other total population was more than 421, while most others estimated at more or less than 1100 Indochinese tigers worldwide. In fact, the Indochinese tiger are the second most common subspecies of the tigers, so there should be more at least a thousand in total. But really, which is how? How many Indochinese tigers are out there?--FierceJake754 (talk) 19:49, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

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The text says that there are hundreds of tigers in Thailand, Myanmar and Vietnam, but the map doesn't show them. Kortoso (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Make a better one! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 00:15, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

See this. Leo1pard (talk) 08:36, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

See Talk:Bengal_tiger#First_sentence_structure. AnomalousAtom (talk) 08:01, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by BrightOrion (talk • contribs) 11:54, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• Note: this Rfc has been withdrawn by its creator. Mathglot (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

I have added Myanmar to the Indochinese tiger's distribution map. I have done this by combining these files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indochinese_tiger#/media/File:Panthera_tigris_tigris_and_Panthera_tigris_corbetti_distribution_map.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panthera_tigris_corbetti_distribution_map.png

However, the article of Indochinese tiger says there are only 22 Indochinese tigers in Myanmar. The distribution map suggests many more than 22 and so there is a discrepancy. Additionally, the article states the Indochinese tiger is found in Myanmar, Thailand and Laos, whereas the distribution map also shows the tiger in Cambodia and India (the states of Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland, and Mizoram). The Pakke Tiger Reserve article suggests the Indochinese tiger is found in Nagaland in India.

Furthermore, the following website says "By 2020, the population of Indochinese Tigers had fallen by more than 80% in just over a decade, and just 221 Indochinese tigers are estimated to remain in Thailand and Myanmar. No viable populations of tigers remain in Cambodia, China, Lao People's Democratic Republic, or Vietnam." https://globalconservation.org/species-facing-extinction/indochinese-tiger/

Summary of issues:

1. Is the Indochinese tiger found in Laos now? (current Indochinese tiger article says it is, other websites say it isn't)
2. Is it found in India? (current distribution map and Pakke Tiger Reserve article says it is)
3. Is it found in Cambodia? (current distribution map says it is)
4. How many tigers are there now in Myanmar? (current distribution map suggests more than 22)

BrightOrion (talk) 13:58, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

LAOS : see section *Distribution and habitat* : 14 tigers documented between 2013 and 2017. Am not aware of later records. – BhagyaMani (talk) 15:56, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

The question then becomes "are 14 tigers a viable population?" If so, it doesn't agree with the Global Conservation website I linked to. I know you don't like any websites that aren't of a scientific nature BhagyaMani, so you will probably dismiss it. BrightOrion (talk) 17:19, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Update: I have updated the distribution map. I have removed the tiger from India, Cambodia and China. I have greatly reduced its range in Thailand, referring to this map https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989421002687#fig0005. If anyone can tell me where in Laos the handful of tigers are, I will add that to the map. BrightOrion (talk) 19:39, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Maybe these help: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Historic-and-Current-Geographic-Distribution-of-Tigers-Corresponding-to-the-Eight_fig1_8143646 ('current' was 2004), https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/15955/50659951#geographic-range (2021) - it has a really long bibliography list at the bottom of the page, waddie96 ★ (talk) 20:00, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you waddie96! Sadly, that Researchgate map above, although it is only as recently as 2004, is quite out of date now. The map shows the Indochinese tiger in India, Malaysia, a lot of Thailand, a lot of Laos, and Vietnam. Its range has shrunk a lot since then, I believe. BrightOrion (talk) 07:01, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi @SilverTiger12:, Why did you remove my recent contributions to the article. What is wrong with the content? I attribute all content to reliable sources.

1- The content that Myanmar has both the Bengal tiger and the Indochinese tiger, is supported by a source that is a journal article in a magazine (Cite journal is popular in Wikipedia, so it is considered a reliable source).

2- The content that mentions the depiction of 3 cubs attributed to news (there is the same content in the same article regarding Thailand, so why were these contributions accepted and my contributions removed).

3- The additions you made to estimating the number of tigers in Myanmar with 22 are important additions that contain supplementary information that must be mentioned, including that this census included only adult and semi-adult individuals, meaning that 22 does not include all Myanmar tigers.

4- The content in which it was mentioned that the tiger habitat in Myanmar is dangerous and cannot be surveyed due to the conflicts is an important addition that explains why not all tigers in the country were counted as in the previous content which stated that only 8% of the tiger habitat was included in the census. I think this addition is important and it is supported by a Myanmar's news website (and I think it is considered an acceptable source)

5- The tiger census in Laos and Vietnam is attributed to a reliable source, which is the WWF, which all animal articles cite, and also it is the last official census for the two countries and there is no other census. So I think it is not acceptable to remove such content attributed to a reliable source.

6- The extinction of the tiger in Laos is attributed to an journal article and is therefore attributed to a 100% reliable source and it is not understood why it was removed.

7- The content of its extinction in Vietnam is attributed to a Vietnamese news website, so I think it is acceptable.

8- The last conclusion in which he mentioned that the Indochina tiger has only survived in Myanmar and Thailand is attributed to a reliable source, which is Mongabay which, as mentioned in his article, is one of the best green websites, so it is definitely a reliable source.

So please take back my recent contributions. If the defect of contributions is their length, you can shorten them, and if this is not the place for them, move them to the appropriate place, and if the content violates copyright, you can reformulate it in a way that does not violate copyright. As for removing all of these valuable contributions entirely, even though they are backed up by reliable sources, I do not find it acceptable.محمد ماجد السورميري (talk) 12:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

I have been removing your additions because they are copyright violations, which are considered a severe problem. SilverTiger12 (talk) 15:54, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Agree. See also User talk:BhagyaMani#Remove my contributions -- BhagyaMani (talk) 17:07, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi @SilverTiger12 and BhagyaMani:, regarding my recent contributions that were removed for copyright violations, well I have reformatted the content and made the following changes to them:

1- The content Myanmar had both the Bengal tiger and the Indochinese tiger, I rephrased it to become as follows:

Tiger distributed across the Myanmar and among every provinces. The country is home to two tiger populations, Bengal and Indochinese tiger. In 1996, the composition of the two populations was 60% of the Bengal tiger and 40% of the Indochinese tiger. The natural ecological divide for these two populations in country is assumed to be the Irrawaddy River, but there is no scientific proof for that statement. Only DNA test can prove.^[1]

With regard to the content of stripes provided for in the same reference above as well, amendments were made to it to become as follows:

Indochinese tiger and Bengal tiger can be identified by the number and pattem of their stripes. The Indochinese tiger has 22-24 stripes, more frequently 20, while the Bengal tiger has 18-20 stripes, very occasionally 21.^[2]

But I suggest moving this content to the characteristics section instead of the distribution section.

2- Regarding the content of sightseeing the three cubs in Myanmar, the following changes were made to it and became as follows:

Camera trap surveys between 2014 and 2019 revealed about three tiger cubs were photographed in the Htamanthi Wildlife Reserve.^[3]

3- Regarding the content of the last census of tigers in Myanmar, estimated at 22 individuals, I suggest adding these important content, which contain important supplementary information in my opinion, so that the content becomes as follows:

Camera trap surveys between 2016 and 2018 revealed about 22 individuals in three sites that represent 8% of potential tiger habitat in the country, which estimated 12 million acres, that is, it constitutes about 7% of the country's area. And also, this census included only adult and subadult individuals, so population may be higher.

4- Regarding the content on the danger of surveying the habitat of tigers in Myanmar, I amended it to become as follows:

But due to the remote of some areas and others the off limits due to armed conflicts, data collection is dangerous. So it is difficult to know the real number of population and survey tiger habitat in the country.^[4]

5- Regarding the content of the 2016 global census in Laos and Vietnam, I do not think that there is any breach of publication.

Population of tigers in Laos and Vietnam has declined significantly, according to the global census of tigers in 2016, there are only 2 left in Laos and less than 5 in Vietnam only.^[5]

Also, this census is the last census of tigers in the two countries, so there is no other census, so I think that removing the content is not justified, and the census is recent, only 6 years old.

6- Regarding the content of extinction in Laos, in fact the source is the same as the one cited in the content of the existence of 14 tigers between 2013-2017, but if you visit the source, its content contradicts what is mentioned in the content, the content mentions that they are probably extinct in Laos, originally the title is “Documenting the demise of tiger and leopard, and the status of other carnivores and prey, in Lao PDR's most prized protected area: Nam Et - Phou Louey”, Note the title states the demise of tiger and leopard, and it also states the abstract:

"This study assesses the current diversity of mammals and birds in NEPL, based on camera trap surveys from 2013 to 2017, facilitating an assessment of protected area management to date. We implemented a dynamic multispecies occupancy model fit in a Bayesian framework to reveal a community and species occupancy and diversity. throughout Lao PDR."

That is, the 2013 census only noticed two individuals and no one has seen them since that time, so I suggest changing the paragraph of the presence of 14 tigers in the country to become as follows:

There is news of its extinction in both countries. In Laos, no tiger has been seen since 2013, when its populations were estimated at only two, and these two individuals simply vanished shortly after 2013 from Nam Et-Phou Louey National Protected Area, denoting they were most likely killed either by snare or gun.^[6]

7- Regarding its extinction in Vietnam, it radically changed the content to become as follows:

In Vietnam, a 2014 IUCN Red List report indicated that tigers possibly extinct in Vietnam.^[7]

I also replaced the reference, now citing the IUCN Red List which is a reliable source that mentions tiger habitat as possibly extinct in Vietnam.

8- Regarding remaining only in Myanmar and Thailand, I changed the content to read as follows:

Thus, probably the Indochinese tiger now only survives in Thailand and Myanmar.^[8]

So please, republish my contributions as above, because I think I changed them in a way that is not copyright violations.محمد ماجد السورميري (talk) 04:59, 14 May 2022 (UTC)