Talk:József Mindszenty

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USA Embassy Exile

I dont understand, where he lived during period 1956-1971; in US. Embassy in Budapest?? Could somebody clear this up? User:Jugoslaven 27.VIII. 20005. 14:09 CET

Yes, this is true. I fixed some other errors using http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Mindszenty. -- Hreid 16:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

A controversial person? Why?

Mindszenty went to the U.S. Embassy as a place of refuge, and the U.S. Government offered him sanctuary. Had Mindszenty actually left the embassy at any time, he would have been arrested by Hungary's Communist government. It was only in 1971, when the Hungarian government agreed to allow Mindszenty to leave the country, that he left the embassy.

The United States Embassy in Budapest has moved since the time Mindszenty was exiled there! The photo on this page is of the current United States Embassy. But I understand Mindszenty was exiled here in this building: http://goo.gl/maps/2Ecr1 ,close to the current French Embassy and across the street from a large plaza - "Hosok tere".

Initially he was in refuge at the U.S. Legation in Hungary. The legation was upgraded to an embassy in 1966. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertFritzius (talk • contribs) 15:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Expanded.

Added info on controversy, structured, a little bit expanded. Mindszenty was much like Ratzinger is. 195.70.32.136 15:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Fawning POV

This entire page is moving towards a fawning POV regarding Mindszenty. There is too much rewriuting of the criticism to red-bait critics and soften the controversy, expecially regarding his tolerance of antisemitic attacks.--Cberlet 02:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It is pretty strange, isn't it? Nothing at all about his trial, confession, or the brainwashing allegations? Mindszenty confessed that he had orchestrated the theft of Hungary's crown jewels (including the Crown of Saint Stephen) with the explicit purpose of crowning Otto Von Hapsburg emporer of Eastern Europe. He admitted that he had schemed to remove the Communist government; that he had planned a Third World War, and that, once this war was won by the Americans, he himself would assume political power in Hungary. Why isn't this information in the article? It's really weird. I have added {{subst:npov}} as such. 74.140.211.161 16:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Is "Brainwash: The Secret History of Mind Control" a good enough source to claim that the cardinal was trying to orchestrate a brand new world war? I'd recommended softening the modality of the language unless there's a primary document from him confessing as such, or even something as another source. 71.7.219.16 (talk) 02:49, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Prior to his "confession" a smuggled letter from him purported to say that the prosecutors could get him, using "mind drugs" and other means of persuasion, "to say anything." The arrest was clearly political. The crown jewel theft probably a bunch of obvious poppycock. But things tended to "disappear" at the end of a war. Remember all the stuff that disappeared from Iraq museums? It's likely that "someone" might have taken charge of certain valuables. Crowning an unpopular Hapsburg seems a bit much. But remember, that most people are entitled to political opinions, even unpopular ones, outside of totalitarian regimes. The problem for anti-Communists was to come up with might seem like a viable alternative to Communist rule, however silly it seems to us today.

No doubt the anti-Communists wanted the war to continue into Eastern Europe, but Americans and English had had a bellyful and it wasn't in the cards. The Eastern Europeans most likely couldn't understand this. Student7 (talk) 14:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

As a Hungarian patriot Cardinal Mindszenty would never have crowned an "Emperor of Eastern Europe" or even of Austria. Emperor, in this context, is an Austrian title! If anything, he would have crowned an Apostolic King of Hungary with precisely this title. --93.134.218.225 (talk) 17:36, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Under Church leader and opposition to communism it labels George Seldes as Marxist. Wikipedia's bio of Seldes doesn't so label him, and it seems to me that doing so here is a matter of justifying the hagiography of Mindszenty. Seldes is not known for having distorted truth to accord with whatever political views he had, but what would I know. The problem is that in so clearly being biased and fawning a biography will be rejected as a reference by any scholar who may stop reading and will look elsewhere. Andygx (talk) 16:56, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

rm one label on Seldes, which seemed unnecessary to the sentence. Labeled him a communist sympathizer, though his bio suggests that he was pro-Stalinist, and a lot worse, IMO. Hardly npov, that's for sure. Student7 (talk) 22:52, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

I checked the sources: some failed verification. I confirm it to be fawning POV in places. I further removed the "communist sympathizer" laber and wikified it so that readers can check for themselves. Zezen (talk) 12:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Native name?

In article is written:

It is not exactly: His native name was József (or Josef) Pehm. (See:Hungarian Wikipedia too)--Stebunik (talk) 18:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

De: Der spätere Kardinal-Primas und „letzter großer Märtyrer des Kreuzzuges gegen den Kommunismus und Atheismus” wurde als József Pehm geboren. Als er 1941 als Protest seinen deutschen Familiennamen ablegte, nannte er sich nach seinem Geburtsort – Mindszenty.

En:Later Cardinal-Primas and "the last great martyr of the crusade against communism and atheism" was born as József Pehm. When he took off in 1941 as a protest to (German nazism) his German family name, he called himself after his birthplace - Mindszenty

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References

correct pronunciation of the name?

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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:József Mindszenty/CommentsTalk:József Mindszenty/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

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Quote from book Avro Manhattan: Vatican's Holocaust, Chapter 10: The ruthlessness of such advocacy was typically Catholic. Christianity (that is, Catholicism) could be—indeed, had to be—imposed upon those rejecting Christian civilization, and, failing persuasion, this must be done by force. Such Catholic reasoning had made Ustashi Croatia possible; the same Catholic reasoning now had begun looking on wider horizons, to make a new Ustashi regime of a whole Continent. Was that the personal whim of Archbishop Stepinac? It was the basic Catholic policy emanating directly from the Vatican. This was proved only three years later (1949) when another pillar of the Catholic Church—i.e. Cardinal Mindszenty of Hungary—having planned to overthrow the Hungarian Government, reckoned on the military intervention of the "right" kind of Allies. Such intervention would have meant general war, and hence the use of atomic bombs. Cardinal Mindszenty had acted on the assumption that the overthrow of the Hungarian Government, with the consequent "restoration of the Hungarian Catholic Monarchy of Hapsburg in its place, could be achieved with help from abroad...in case a new world war created such a situation," to quote his own words.[5] "I regarded it (the outbreak of the third world war) as a basis," said the Cardinal. Mindszenty could well think and act in this fashion, in the comforting knowledge that behind him stood the Vatican, bent upon furthering its vast political schemes, on the assumption of a third world conflict. Vatican political post-war designs had precisely that "as a basis."

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Quote from book Avro Manhattan: Vatican's Holocaust, Chapter 10:

The ruthlessness of such advocacy was typically Catholic. Christianity (that is, Catholicism) could be—indeed, had to be—imposed upon those rejecting Christian civilization, and, failing persuasion, this must be done by force. Such Catholic reasoning had made Ustashi Croatia possible; the same Catholic reasoning now had begun looking on wider horizons, to make a new Ustashi regime of a whole Continent.

Was that the personal whim of Archbishop Stepinac? It was the basic Catholic policy emanating directly from the Vatican. This was proved only three years later (1949) when another pillar of the Catholic Church—i.e. Cardinal Mindszenty of Hungary—having planned to overthrow the Hungarian Government, reckoned on the military intervention of the "right" kind of Allies. Such intervention would have meant general war, and hence the use of atomic bombs. Cardinal Mindszenty had acted on the assumption that the overthrow of the Hungarian Government, with the consequent "restoration of the Hungarian Catholic Monarchy of Hapsburg in its place, could be achieved with help from abroad...in case a new world war created such a situation," to quote his own words.[5] "I regarded it (the outbreak of the third world war) as a basis," said the Cardinal. Mindszenty could well think and act in this fashion, in the comforting knowledge that behind him stood the Vatican, bent upon furthering its vast political schemes, on the assumption of a third world conflict. Vatican political post-war designs had precisely that "as a basis."

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Last edited at 11:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 20:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)