It is baffling that the reference that the Kalandia camp is within Greater is continuously changed to Area "A" in response to an out of context quote from the NYTimes- which is admittedly ambiguous. However what is NOT ambiguous is the description both on the UNRWA site [1] and the official profile .[2]
This isn't even a debatable point, kalandia camp is within Greater Jerusalem, and in fact Israeli authorities refused to transfer authority to the Palestinian Authority in 1995 based on the fact it considers the land Greater Jerusalem.
The latest edit on the Kalandia camp is even more baffling as it claims kalandia is on the Israeli side of the border yet still in area "A". ALL land on the Israeli side of the barrier is Area "C" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michardav (talk • contribs) 00:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The camp is not abandoned as proven by this article about a fund raiser for children living there- dated just last month (May 2013) It also quotes the population as being 15,000. http://www.gofundme.com/Save-Qalandia-Summer-Camp — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michardav (talk • contribs) 02:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Michardav and Mcnary1948: Both of you must study the panel I just inserted at the top of this web page. In particular, both of you have been violating the 1RR restriction that applies to all articles related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Many editors have been blocked or otherwise sanctioned for violating this restriction; don't become the next! Zerotalk 07:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The next stage is to discuss the question here. Everyone agrees that the village is within the barrier. The camp is not so simple. Google maps shows it as on the south side of the airport runway and therefore also within the barrier. On the other hand, Btselem's maps show it on the north/northeast side of the runway, outside the barrier. Look at the interactive map here, or the 2012 barrier map below it. This information plus the UNRWA profile suggests the solution to the problem: the barrier cut off some of the refugee camp buildings from the main group. The part inside the barrier is (I assume, but we need a source) mostly abandoned, the part outside is not. Also notice that the barrier does not mark the edge of the municipal boundary of Jerusalem. Look at the boundary (yellow) and the barrier (red) on the Btselem map, they cross each other in a complex fashion. Actually the Btselem map shows the boundary passing through the middle of the camp, which is confusing compared to the UNRWA page. It is not surprising: refugee camps always spread out beyond their official limits. As for the village, it is inside the barrier and outside the municipal boundary. The task now is to find good sources that provide that information. Zerotalk 07:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The UNRWA profile I have sourced is in agreement with the map Zero provided. The Barrier was built on the southwest border of the camp. But that is not what is in question. Two things- is the camp within greater Jerusalem? UNRWA states unequivocally it is. Even the sub-heading on the Kalandia Wiki entry- "Jerusalem Governorate" agree that it is. Second is the camp abadandoned? Too suggest that is ridiculous! On closer inspection, the land on Google Maps appears to be support building for the Jerusalem airport- erroneously labeled "Qalandia Refugee Camp". Both B'Tselem and UNRWA maps show the camp EAST of airport- which is clearly not abandoned- in fact the football field mentioned in the camp profile is clearly visible. Combined with the link I provided for a fundraiser for children in the camp show just last month (May 2013) show the camp is still very much occupied. Regardless, using google maps to show an area abandoned with no corroborating evidence falls under the category of "original research" and as such is unacceptable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michardav (talk • contribs) 01:08, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
After further research the answer was right on the Kalandia wiki entry itself. If you follow the link under sources "Atarot and the fate of the Jerusalem airport" http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/ViewArticle.aspx?id=20 "As things stand at the moment, The Wall carves out the Atarot industrial zone – and most of its access roads – as part of Israeli Jerusalem, and keeps Qalandia refugee camp and the areas around it – even parts of Jerusalem such as Qafr Aqab and Semiramis – within the Palestinian (West Bank) side. ". In other words, Google Maps has erroneously labeled the Atarot Industrial Zone as the Qalandia Refugee Camp. Also immediately following the Atarot description we come to this statement "Just after the start of the second Intifada, the industrial zone nearly turned into a ghost town. Israelis felt it was too dangerous to come to the 425-acre complex."
So we now know why the area looks deserted. But it is definitely NOT the refugee camp. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michardav (talk • contribs) 01:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
- Google Maps shows the refugee camp in the wrong place. It is a clear error and so we should ignore it. As for whether the camp is within the municipal boundaries, UNRWA states that it is, and Btselem's map says that the boundary passes through the camp. As I noted above, these are not necessarily contradictory since the area occupied by the camp might be larger than the official extent of the camp. However, without a source addressing this point precisely, we can mention both the UNRWA statement and the Btselem map. Zerotalk 02:20, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
- Hmmmm, look at this UNRWA page. We see, with the same date, "Shu'fat is the only West Bank camp that lies within the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem." and "The Israeli authorities consider [Kalandia camp] as part of Greater Jerusalem". I'm getting the feeling that "Greater Jerusalem" does not mean Jerusalem within its municipal boundaries. Indeed Israel does make this distinction. Zerotalk 03:23, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
I agree, just like many great cities have first their municipal boundaries then the "greater" portion that incorporates surrounding areas. That's why I worded my entry as such "Israeli authorities consider it part of Greater Jerusalem and it remains under their control." Frankly the boundary is a non-issue. Is the camp deserted?- no we've established that. Does Israel administer the camp? UNRWA states it does, and so far there's been no refutation on that issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michardav (talk • contribs) 03:33, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
