Talk:Lahoh

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I've removed some comments added recently. Someone who knows what language they are in could, if they are a worthwhile addition to the article, edit them back without repeating the disturbance to the article's formatting that occurred the first time. Britmax 19:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Comparison to injera

The article compares laxoox to injera, but then goes into more detail, after which it doesn't sound similar to injera at all (unless "round flatbreads from East Africa" equals "similar"). Could this just as easily be compared (or even better compared) to, say, pita (i.e. round, wheat flatbread)? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I've restored the tag. The text, as written, could describe a tortilla, pita, flapjack, etc. What actually makes it similar to injera? I would expect to see a statement such as "both have a sour taste" and/or "both have a porous texture" and/or "both use a starter", etc., preferably from a verfiable source rather than based upon personal experience. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Update: now that we have a photo, it is more clear as to why lahoh is mentioned alongside injera, canjeero etc. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Acually you probably know more about this than me, I never tried Somalian Laxoox/Injera. The Ethiopian and Yemeni Injersa I tried are exactly the same (very thin). Yemenis call it Laxoox, while Ethiopians call it Injera. Do you know any place I can find Somalian Laxoox/canjeera in the USA?

I never saw the thicker laxoox your describing so maybe yu should seperate them to 2 groups? the thinner bread(Injera/Laxoox) and the thicker bread (the Somalian canjeera) << I never tried that so I am not sure how different it is.Skatewalk 03:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks, based on what you'd written I already suspected there were different kinds of Laxoox (e.g. Somali and Yemeni). As the Yemeni spelling also "laxoox" or is it "lahoh"? Thanks again, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I actually wanted to use the word Lahoh, but then I didn't want to add confusion, so I simply added to the existing Laxoox. Is the X pronounced as a light (H)? Let me know I will change it. Skatewalk 14:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

According to the article: "pronounced 'laa-hōh' in Somali". Based on this and other readings, I believe the "x" is an "h" sound in Somali. We should really stick to the most common English spelling, but sometimes there isn't one. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok man I will leave the article alone, I really prefer that the whole thing gets put in one article. and then just seperate it into Ethiopian/Eritrean, Somali and Yemeni. -- Skatewalk 04:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Lachooh can also be found in israel, having been imported by Yemeni Jews. it is rather common in areas which they are concentrated in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.228.215 (talk) 14:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Origin

The article made the unsourced claim that lahoh/laxoox "originates with the Yemeni Jewish community". This sounds pretty dubious, as similar breads have been eaten in the Horn of Africa since time immemorial, so I've removed it until somebody can scrounge up a reference. Jpatokal (talk) 04:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Ethiopian Origin?

I've seen that 104.222.124.36 has removed all Somali origins from the food. Is there any sources that prove it's from Ethiopia instead of Somalia & Yemen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.111.192 (talk) 00:43, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

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Origin Israel?

Is there any food that is from the 70 years old Zionist entity? SharabSalam (talk) 06:03, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Injera

There are resources that show that Injera and Lahoh the same FikriyeRıza (talk) 10:41, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

  • Culture and Customs of Somalia. p. 113.</ref>
  • Oppose The Arabic word lahoh is the most commonly recognizable name. Per WP:COMMONNAME we should use the commonly used name.--SharabSalam (talk) 11:26, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Article source Abdullahi using the injera also. FikriyeRıza (talk) 13:13, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Lahoh is made using sorghum flour, while Injera uses teff flour. Though they are both similar, they are eaten in different regions and made of different things, meaning they are seperate foods. CalebTheNerd (talk) 00:40, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
This is wrong Sorghum is also used for injera. The same thing. FikriyeRıza (talk) 06:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The word Lahoh is, typically, used in Arabic for a spongy-cake made usually from sorghum meal, whereas Injera is an Amharic word used for something similar, but almost exclusively made from Teff (Williams lovegrass), although it is sometimes made from sorghum. The usual association one comes-up with for these two products is different. No reason to confuse our readers.Davidbena (talk) 17:37, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose To conflate injera with lahoh would be to conflate the foodstuffs of two wholly different, unrelated cultures for no reason other than that English-language speakers may see a superficial similarity. One is almost exclusively made of teff while the other is almost exclusively not. The two are eaten in wholly different ways and contexts. The resources that show that the two are similar are resources written by westerners with little familiarity with either. The similarities are superficial and the differences are substantial. It would significantly confuse the average lay reader for no benefit. Blockyblock567 (talk) 09:19, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

*Agreed in Somalia injera and lahoh words are both used, in the north of the country closer to Yemen the word lahoh is used while central and southern regions of Somalia injera or injero as pronounced. Regardless of which flour is used it's still very much the same and made in the same fashion whether with sorghum or teff flour.--Gashaamo (talk) 10:49, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose. For the same reasons as Davidbena and Blockyblock567--Geewhiz (talk) 11:09, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Origin

@Abo_Yemen Since we can't reach a consensus on the article, I think we should go ahead and use WP:3O. You say that laxoox and lahoh are two different things, whereas I believe that past and current versions of the article use both names interchangeably. We can discuss on the talk page first though, but I think eventually we will require a third opinion. Limegreencoral (talk) 12:12, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Pasqualone 2023 clearly makes a distinction between the two, even saying that Somali laxoox may be related to Yemeni lahoh, clearly suggesting that they're not the same thing. Feel free to create an article for the Somali laxoox, the same way Injera has its own article 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 12:40, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
Not sure if a Lahoh(Somali) article won't just be considered a duplicate. I think the disagreement would benefit from a third opinion on whether or not a separate article should be created. Are we in agreement to use the dispute resolution?
I will list it as 'Disagreement about whether the article needs to be separated into two'
Also why was the the book that was cited, Culture and Customs of Somalia changed to a made up title Culture and Customs of Yemenis? Limegreencoral (talk) 14:07, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
What are we requesting a 3o for exactly? The other article should be named Laxoox. I dont see how it is a duplicate, since those are two different foods as they're made of different ingredients as shown in the source that I've linked to above. I've also reverted the ip's change of the book's name 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:18, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
3o on whether a new article should be created. Also, do you know which one the article image is supposed to be? The image was added to a version of the article that had the place of origin as Somalia. Limegreencoral (talk) 14:44, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
I dont see why a 3o is needed here. You haven't explained why a new article is not needed. Anw our main discussion is that Lahoh is Yemeni and Laxoox is Somali, do you agree with that? If not, do you have sources that say that they're the same thing. As for the image, I've nom'ed it for deletion since I doubt that it is free. Feel free to comment at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Lahooh.jpg 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
I don't doubt that there are differences, but I don't know if I'm fully on board with creating a new article. Like I explained, it may be seen as a duplicate, which you disagreed with, or just variations of the same dish. Laxoox is also spelled in English as Lahoh or Lahooh. I wanted a 3o to provide a comment on the topic of whether a separate article should be made. Limegreencoral (talk) 15:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
@Abo Yemen or maybe a WP:RFC for input on if a new separate article should be created. Limegreencoral (talk) 15:48, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
An rfc is too much imo. As long as there is agreement that they aren't the same type of food, a 3o would do 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:59, 17 August 2025 (UTC)
I listed it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Third_opinion#Active_disagreements
Hopefully we will get a neutral opinion on if another article should be created. I'm assuming that if we do decide to create a new article, parts of the current one will be deleted and moved to the new one yes? Limegreencoral (talk) 20:27, 17 August 2025 (UTC)


Response to third opinion request:
The dispute is whether two similar flatbreads, Yemeni Lahoh (this article) and Somali Laxoox (mentioned in this article), are distinctly different enough to warrant their own respective articles.

Abo Yemen cites Pasqualone 2023 in support of their position that the two flatbreads are distinctly different.

Limegreencoral believes that past and present versions of this article use laxoox and lahoh interchangeably, and raises concerns that having two articles would create unnecessary duplication of content due to the two's similarities.

My thoughts follow. The abstract of Pasqualone reads, The physical–chemical and nutritional characteristics of Somali laxoox and Yemeni lahoh flatbreads have not been studied to date, nor have their possible similarities been investigated.

The conclusions section is not very conclusive, to be expected in a first study such as this. It is noted that there is high variabiity in the characteristics Somali laxoox sampled in the study, "with two samples forming a separate subgroup." And futher, "the main features that distinguish the laxoox breads from both of the Yemeni lahoh samples, although one of the latter, representative of the ordinary flatbread production in Yemen (the Sanaa’ani style lahoh), was not very distant from the laxoox main group." This suggests to me that the main distinction may actually linguistic and cultural, and indeed in the next paragraph we read:

The results of this investigation have both technical and cultural implications by shedding light on the physical–chemical and nutritional properties of these breads and by offering valuable insights into their social and ethnographic significance. These flatbreads are still very artisanal and not at all standardized, so at this stage, it was important to assess the extent of the variability of their characteristics.

The paper seems to support Abo Yemen's position that there is a distinction, but I note they did not explore the content of the article much beyond saying that Somali laxoox 'may be related to Yemeni lahoh suggests that they're the same thing. My response to that is, mmm, not necessarily. I think the presumption of the paper was that they're different based on the observation that they're produced by distinctly different cultures speaking different languages living in different countries, and that their intent was to find similarities.

Limegreencoral's concern about duplication of content is understandable, but I have not read anything about this topic except this paper, and even that not deeply. Their observation that laxxox and lahoh have been used interchangeably in the lahoh article is less compelling, but I won't say it's not worth additional consideration.

I lean toward separate articles out of cultural and linguistic sensitivities. Let's probe whether transclusion of content from this article into the proposed new laxoox article might resolve duplication concerns.

I am following this thread and will jump in if I feel it necessary. I have generally high availablity and can be pinged for any reason as well. Xan747 (talk) 07:26, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

@Xan747 If a new article is to be created, should the English spelling 'Lahoh(Somali dish)' be used for the title, or the Somali spelling 'Laxoox'. What do you think? Limegreencoral (talk) 22:00, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME suggests to use the common English spelling if there is one. Looking at the article lede below, it seems the Romanized Arabic word might be a good choice for the title of a single article, rather than being split primarily over the Somali (Laxoox) / Yemeni (Lahoh) since Arabic is the official language of both countries, and serves as a lingua franca between them. Correct me if I am wrong, but one hitch is that most Yemenis speak Yemeni Arabic in their daily lives, with varying ability to speak formal Arabic, whereas most Somalis use Somali daily, with varying proficiency in Arabic. Now I will go out on a limb and guess that virtually everyone in both countries knows the Arabic, Somali and Yemeni spelling for this type of flatbread, so if we have redirects to this article from all three, nobody from either country, or across the Middle East for that matter, will have trouble finding it whether using Arabic or Latin alphabets. But I do imagine folks in Somalia might wonder why the Yemeni spelling takes precedence. And looking more closely at it now, I am wondering that myself given that Somalia and Yemen are far from the only countries eating this general type of flatbread. Is it because most English-language sources use the Yemeni (Lahoh) spelling? If so, I would be of the mind to discuss taking the Western thumb off that scale and drift toward the Arabic laḥūḥ (with or without the diacritic?) as the title of this article. Then in each section which discusses the local variants, introduce and use the local spellings.
Lahoh (Arabic: لحوح, romanized: laḥūḥ [laħuːħ]; Somali: laxoox[disputed – discuss] or canjeero) is a type of spongy flatbread eaten regularly in Yemen, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia and Saudi Arabia. Yemenite Jewish immigrants popularized the dish in Israel. It is called canjeero/canjeelo in southern Somalia and also called lahoh in Somaliland, Djibouti, Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Xan747 (talk) 22:59, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
I'm fine with that as well, thank you for your input. One of the things I wondered myself was whether they would just be considered variations of the same dish, making the creation of a separate article questionable. There is also a section in the article that compares the difference in techniques for preparing the dish. Limegreencoral (talk) 00:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
You're welcome. My view at the moment is that someone living in the region would recognize lahoh from laxoox without requiring a laboratory analysis, but that all three spellings would be an acceptable generic way to ask for any variety in any country of the region without ruffling any feathers. That argues for one article.
Where wp:commonname works into this is what a Westerner would ask for in New York City or London. I'm certain it would be lahoh, which argues for keeping the article name the same. If that's the way we go, I would suggest changing the second sentence in the lede to something like: Yemenite Jewish immigrants popularized the dish in Israel, and the Yemeni spelling lahoh has become the common term even for distinct regional variants such as Somali laxxox. Xan747 (talk) 01:54, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it's necessarily Yemeni spelling, rather just the English spelling in general. لحوح and laxoox have the same pronunciation. In Somali script the x is pronounced as h, so Laxoox spelt in English becomes Lahoh or Lahooh. I definitely do agree with your point for the most part though. The dishes do have visual differences that someone from the region would be able to differentiate, but they have pretty much the same name and share enough similarities that a separate article could just lead to confusion. Limegreencoral (talk) 04:18, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

@Abo Yemen: Is there anything you would like to add?

@Xan747 nothing other than that I agree with splitting this article, and maybe referring to the somali dish as "canjeero" (an alt name of the somali variant) to avoid confusion. I'd also point out that Injera, a dish very much identical to Lahoh, has its own article just because it's ingredients are a bit different (see #Proposed merge with Injera above) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
Injera is more distinct and does not share the exact same name which the Somali and Yemeni Lahoh do.
Below you can even look at this textbook source which labels the dish as being from both regions.
https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Elementary_Food_Science/eulxEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22lahoh%22&pg=PA504&printsec=frontcover Limegreencoral (talk) 09:46, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
That book didn't go into the specifics. It's a general book about foods, unlike the research paper provided above, which is specifically about Lahoh 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:49, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
@Abo Yemen I would rather not get drawn into the separate topic of Injera here. The research paper found such a high degree of variability in the Somali flatbreads that it prompted the researchers to declare a separate subgroup for two of the samples they took. They also noted that different recipes are used, and that the process of "manual food preparation" leads to a high degree of variability. The point is, there is no one "type" of lahoh/laxoox, which are just different spellings of the same word. It's a generic word to refer to different variations of the same theme, a lot like how brown bread is used to refer to all kinds of different bread types which use whole grains (wheat or rye) as opposed to white bread which made from wheat flour with the bran and germ removed. That said, the latter article has a See also section pointing to some other articles, notably Wonder Bread, which is a type of sliced bread or sandwich bread that is notable for being one of the first of its type, with significant market penetration and brand durability, and such a household name that it is not uncommon to generically refer to other brands of white "sponge breads" as "Wonder Bread" (albeit somewhat ironically in my case).
TL;DR: I just don't see enough clear distinction to warrant a separate article for lahoh and laxoox, especially not on the basis of a single source which found, at best, a marginal distinction between the two. It really should be sufficient for each to get treatment as sections in the same article. Xan747 (talk) 01:52, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
aight sure, although I dont think that I have enough time on me to fix the article. Thanks for the 3o 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:47, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
You're welcome. Xan747 (talk) 19:13, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

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