Talk:List of waka hourua

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On 8 July 2026, it was proposed that this article be moved from List of Māori waka to List of waka hourua. The result of the discussion was moved.

Return trips presented as facts

This article presents the idea of multiple return trips as fact when in fact it is speculation.In modern times various folk have copied the old voyages but in every case the authenticty of the trip has been compromised-ie one Waka had a 9.9HP yamaha outboard,one was made of fibreglass,most use modern food,some use synthetic sails and ropes-one was even caughton video by the RNZAF being towed by its escort ship,nearly all had radios to get weather forecasts and most carried modern navigation equipment on board .Most of the date on Pacific voyaging is romance and speculation with the same vague notions being endlessly repeated.Undoubtedly Polynesians did wander around the Pacific.The only hard evidence that Polynesins came to NZ and then left is a few bits of obsidian found in islands north of NZ but there is no guarantee that these were not placed there later.Was it really nz obsidian? Claudia jan 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.37.160 (talk) 03:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Interesting angle. Accounts of canoes going between New Zealand and Hawaiki can be found in many traditions across New Zealand. Whether or not these return voyages actually happened is a matter for multi-disciplinary research. First and foremost, the information in this article is meant to be a list of the waka that appear in these traditions. Of course these traditions vary, and it wasn't the intention for this article to present these accounts as indisputable historical fact (Te Ara gives an insight on these canoe traditions here). The lede should have made this clearer perhaps, and I've changed it accordingly. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 07:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

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Canoe doesn't fairly describe Waka

I'm uncomfortable with translating waka as canoe, because in English canoe normally implies a small open row-boat with no cockpit or shelter, holding just a few people who sit single-file.

While this meaning may be modified by adjectival phrases, such as war canoe or migratory canoe, the base meaning of canoe comes nowhere close to describing migratory vessels like Kurahaupo.

The Polynesian migratory waka were ocean-going vessels that looked and functioned a lot more like modern catamarans than tiny rowboats: typical dimensions exceeded 10 metres long by 5 metres wide. They were equipped with a sail and rudder, and some included a "cooking house" to keep the stone firepit dry.

Size is immaterial: a single-scull kayak and a 5000-tonne ship are both waka, in part because the waka that brought the ancestors to Aotearoa were larger-than-life characters in their own right. And today waka can mean any passenger vehicle, such as a minivan or aeroplane (though some may see that as overly poetic - I seek comment from better-skilled speakers of te reo.)

While it is usual here in New Zealand to translate waka as canoe, this acts to modify what a New Zealander understands by canoe; this shift in meaning will not be obvious to the majority of readers worldwide. More apt translations of waka (in the context of this category) would include boat or vessel or great canoe, and my question is whether canoe should be proactively changed in the category description?

Martin Kealey (talk) 00:25, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 8 July 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move to List of waka hourua, for now and per WP:NOTBURO. However, should an RM at Māori migration canoes fail or not be held in the near future, this move should be reverted. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2026 (UTC)

List of Māori waka → List of wakaList of waka – Māori waka is redundant, a waka is a Māori boat/canoe Traumnovelle (talk) 05:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

This appears only to be migration waka, in which case this should be reflected by the name. List of migration waka? Depending on context waka can refer to only migration waka but given our main waka (canoe) article covers more than that it should be specified IMO.

Alternatively the scope could be expanded with a separate section for waka that either exist today or were attested in the post-migratory period. Mir Novov (contribs | talk) 13:08, 11 July 2026 (UTC)

Also Māori migration canoes should probably have a consistent name with this. Mir Novov (contribs | talk) 13:22, 11 July 2026 (UTC)

Support List of waka hourua and moving Māori migration canoes to Waka hourua. I don't think the proposed title is specific enough, and I don't think a general article trying to list all waka would ever be possible or able to meet list criteria. Waka hourua is the correct term for these oceangoing waka and this would ensure consistency between the articles without making the titles needlessly long. Turnagra (talk) 20:25, 11 July 2026 (UTC)

Support List of waka hourua per Turnagra. Also agree that Māori migration canoes should be moved to Waka hourua, but that probably needs its own move discussion. Mir Novov (contribs | talk) 09:38, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Thoughts on new proposal: "List of waka hourua"? Jeffrey34555 (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

Maori migration canoe, in line with the main article title, or migration waka are fine to me, but waka hourua is jargon to an average reader. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:15, 17 July 2026 (UTC)
Waka hourua seems to be the predominant name used in sources about this subject. There are plenty of articles whose names use technical/cultural terms not familiar to the average reader; to use simple terminology in this particular subject would be imposing a standard that does not exist elsewhere in the encylopedia. We have Lozenge (heraldry) not Heraldic diamond, Crotalum not Ancient Greek castanet, Bec de corbin not Medieval spiked hammer, Castrum doloris not Renaissance funeral decorations. Mir Novov (contribs | talk) 09:02, 18 July 2026 (UTC)
Support List of waka hourua or List of Māori migration canoes. Waka is ambiguous, so that's no good, and based on some of the other entries on the dab page it appears Māori waka is also ambiguous (or, incompletely disambiguated). Ideally the titles of this article and Māori migration canoes should be the same, and there would have first been an RM to change the other title or these would have been co-listed in a mass RM. But here we are. I'm happy to support List of waka hourua but this is contingent upon a successful RM at Māori migration canoes in the very near future. Per WP:NOTBURO, I don't see a reason to hold things up. But if the other RM is unsuccessful, especially if it has more participants or raises issues not considered here, then this will need to be revisited. The policy basis for this is WP:PRECISION and WP:IAR allowing us to ignore consistency for now. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 22:25, 22 July 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post-close RM notice

The RM is underway at Talk:Māori migration canoes#Requested move 23 July 2026 to retitle Māori migration canoes to Waka hourua. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 15:41, 23 July 2026 (UTC)

Post-close RM notice

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