Talk:Mitch Mitchell

The references in question are Findmypast.com, Familysearch.org, and Hendrix-in-deutschland.blogspot.co.uk. These appear to be user generated and not subject to fact checking, editorial oversight, etc. In short, they do not meet WP:VERIFIABILITY. Mitchell is written about in many books by credible authors. Why are five (5) problematic sources necessary for his name, birth and death dates in the first sentence? Since this is not controversial, one WP:RELIABLESOURCE should be sufficient. These are the seven (7) references I removed:

• Lawrence book – no page number is provided and since it was published before his death, it is of limited use.
• Family Search #1 shows "State California" after his birth date. He was born in England.
• Find My Past #1 This only provides birth year (and quarter?). Again, it is of limited use.
• Hendrix in Deutschland fan blog Fan blogs are usually not considered a reliable source "except those written by a recognized authority (see WP:ELNO #11). There is no indication that this is such an authority.
• Find My Past #1 (again). This does not support that he was born in Ealing, just Middlesex county, so it is of limited use.
• Find My Past #2 & Find My Past #3 This is just a marriage record and doesn't show that Mitchell is their son. Again, it's of limited value.

I also removed a link to youtube. It features a performance of a copyrighted song, with no indication that there is a copyright clearance (it appears to be an amateur upload). Such links fall under WP:ELNEVER. Better sources are available that don't have RS problems. —Ojorojo (talk) 20:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Propose to replace 1) Mitch Mitchell at Find a Grave, 2) Lawrence, 3) Familysearch, 4) & 5) Findmypast (two occurrences), and 6) Hendrix-in-Deutschland with Mitchell's obituary in The Guardian (a reliable source) that includes his birth and death dates and locations. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:58, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

It ain't my problem if you are unable to process data - several of your comments suggest you simply don't understand what you're even seeing. Only on Wikipedia could an article have a false birth year and middle name in place for severel years with no legitimate references = and when both details are corrected with multiple references, could another editor turn up and start removing those references. You are the only person who has an issue here.

A review of WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle as well as policies about verifiabilty and reliable sources would be beneficial. —Ojorojo (talk) 20:59, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

The entry you quote Find My Past #1 is just a copy of the GRO Index entry for the birth which will be the official register entry for his birth which was recorded in the third quarter (July - September) of 1946. This would have been in the 1947 registrations for the birth year quoted by the Guardian to be correct. Keith D (talk) 19:17, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

What? I've no idea what you wrote above - if the birth is recorded in the third quarter of 1946, then the birth was in 1946 not 1947. There only ever an overlap in the fourth quarter.

See also official documentation here

http://hendrix-in-deutschland.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/16-mai-1967-big-apple-munchen.html

People can quote all these publications, but they're all based on Wikipedia - official documents shows the correct birth year. Maybe someone can provide a birth record for 1947. Thought not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.97.205.123 (talk) 18:27, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Another reference used in the article gives an age of 62, which would point to a 1946 birth. Keith D (talk) 19:32, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

If different dates are given by reliable sources, this may be a case of WP:Conflicting sources. So far:

• BBC – "The 61-year-old was discovered ..."
• Billboard (magazine) – "He was 62."
• Drummerworld – "Mitch Mitchell July 9, 1947 - November 12, 2008"
• Encyclopædia Britannica – "Mitch Mitchell (John Mitchell), (born July 9, 1947, ..."
• The Guardian – "Mitch Mitchell, who has died aged 61 ..."
• Los Angeles Times – "He was 61."
• NME – "Obituary: Mitch Mitchell 1947-2008"
• New York Times – "Mitch Mitchell Dies at 62"
• NPR – "He was 61.']
• The Oregonian (Portland paper where he died) – "Born in England in 1947, John "Mitch" Mitchell ..."
• Rolling Stone – "at the age of 62."
• The Telegraph – "John Mitchell was born at Ealing, west London, on July 9 1947 ..."
• Variety (magazine) – "He was 61."
• Colin Larkin (writer), The Virgin Encyclopedia of Popular Music (Concise 4th Edition) – "John 'Mitch' Mitchell (b. 9 July 1947, Ealing, Middlesex, England)"
• Harry Shapiro (author), Jimi Hendrix: Electric Gypsy – (John Mitchell, born Ealing, Middlesex, 9 July 1947)

These would be considered reliable sources: 12 out of 15 show "61" or "1947", 3 show "62" (in bold). Any more? —Ojorojo (talk) 20:40, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

The Rockin' 60s: The People Who Made the Music By Brock Helander has 1946

The 100 Greatest Bands of All Time: A Guide to the Legends Who Rocked the World edited by David V. Moskowitz as 1946.

Probably need to have both in the article rather than picking one or the other.Keith D (talk) 22:34, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Added a couple more. In his book, Inside the Experience, Mitchell doesn't mention his birthdate. Anyway, propose to include both years with references only to the above sources/authors that have WP articles. This would prevent the re-adding of earlier problematic sources. The first sentence would look like this:

John Graham "Mitch" Mitchell (9 July 1946 or 1947 – 12 November 2008)^[1] was an English drummer who was best known for his work in the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

The infobox would show:

Born          9 July 1946 or 1947^[1]

                  Ealing, Middlesex, England

If there are no substantive objections I'll add this. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:06, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/57073641_mitch-mitchell-hendrix-era-passport

The passport is final evidence, all footnotes should point to that link. User:Addeps3 (talk) 16:23, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't know whether a source like this can be actively used on an article, but no one can realistically argue this point now. An original passport that has just been auctioned, clearly showing the birht year as being 1946. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.97.205.123 (talk) 18:32, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

[the following was copied from User talk:Ojorojo#Mitch Mitchell because it is more appropriate for this talk page]

Please desist from your nonsense repeat edits to this article (and from what I can tell, you have yet to actually contribute constructively). You are the only editor reverting my factual and referenced edits, apart from the occasional editor that changes the birth year based on false information from a handful of obits. The incorrect birth year has no place on Wikipedia - employment records, birth records AND passport information confirm the information. It isn't a coincidence that a newly auctioned passport has 1946 at his year of birth. It's interesting that you blind reverted my edit with your stock edit summary, without reading the talk page yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.178.105 (talk) 17:29, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

A passport is not independent proof of the date of a person's birth; it merely shows what the person provided at the time of the application. Those born without a birth certificate or unable to locate it could swear in an affidavit as to their birthdate. The 15 different reliable sources that I added show both years and are not "nonsense repeat edits". Your repeated attempts to add blog-type and other low quality references for just one year and to remove the rest amounts to disruptive editing. If you want, open an WP:RfC for more input. —Ojorojo (talk) 22:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the reference to the passport, the question is finally settled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.8.180 (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

In his autobiography, Mitch says "I had my 21st birthday on the tour" (tour with The Monkees in july 1967). Case closed I would say. 1946. -Unsigned IP (87.116.177.34) 22 December 2017

Finished the job with an inline cite to the book. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:11, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

In Mitchell and co-writer John Platt's book Jimi Hendrix: Inside the Experience (1990), they explain:

I had my 21st birthday on the tour, the second day in fact, when we were on board the private plane at Jacksonville about to travel to Miami for a second gig. [p. 68]

In the "Tour Itinerary" chapter, they add under the 1967 July heading:

Sat 8 Jacksonville, Florida
Sun 9 Jackie Gleason Memorial Hall, Miami (Mitch's 21st birthday) Florida [p. 173]

Simple arithmetic (1967 minus 21 equals 1946) places his birthdate as 9 July 1946. The 1947 date given by Encyclopedia Britannica and others is also included in the "Early days" section of the WP article with citations (see WP:Conflicting sources and WP:NOTOR#Conflict between sources). The date that Mitchell gives in his book (and found in other reliable sources: Billboard, the New York Times, and Rolling Stone) is used for the lead and infobox. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

. Over the objection of the tour manager, Mitchell protested over the concerns of the tour manager and drum tech asked to be allowed to "catch up on sleep" and then to be picked up after a few days rest and to be driven back up to the Seattle area by tour roadies. From Seattle, he had planned to return to his home in England. The tour manager, respected Mitchell's request but with spoken reservations about its wisdom. The tour manager's concern was validated when Mitchell died in his sleep that same night. Press reports that he died from alcohol-related problems are contradicted by Mitchell's health history and are not accurate.[citation needed] Mitchell was the last surviving member of the original Jimi Hendrix Experience 2003:C7:773A:1930:A1EE:133E:5DCB:C0B5 (talk) 00:43, 19 October 2022 (UTC)