Talk:Roman army of the mid-Republic

I have doubts that the Romans ever threw their pila before hand to hand combat in open warfare. If I take the Republican Roman legionary circa 160BC as an example, he is said to have been armed with two pila, a light and a heavy one. I am considering a typical maniple of Hastati, 120 strong, drawn up 6 ranks deep. Accepted wisdom has it, that the Hastati advanced, presumably at a walking pace and a short distance from the enemy, they threw their pila. Firstly, which one did they throw? Did they throw both? I would say that the time factor would not allow this. Secondly, let us assume that they threw the light pila. If we consider a modern Olympic javelin thrower, he takes a long run up before throwing and I just don´t see how 6 ranks of men could do this without jostling each other and poking each other with the pila when it was drawn back. I think that they would have lost formation and I don´t think they could throw the pila any great distance. Indeed, I think that the front rank man, was in danger of being hit from behind by the pila from the 5th and 6th rank men. Amidst all of this, I just don´t see how the enemy would give them the time to do all of this, especially Celtic warriors, who would charge headlong against them. To me, it involves too much stopping and starting and fancy maneuvering, which the enemy would not allow.

What would they do with the heavy pila? When would they throw this? I would say never and that it would become an encumbrance. He would have to have held it, upright, with his "shield arm" and dare I say that it might have interfered with his central grip of the shield. I would suggest that it was never carried in the first place, as it could not be thrown to any advantage, as time and space would not allow it and into the bargain it was too heavy.

I suggest that pila were only ever used in static warfare, at sieges when time and space would allow for it to be thrown and that in open warfare, it was left in camp.

Dave the Walrus (talk) 12:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

"After the end of this war, it appears that proletarii were admitted to the legions as volunteers (as opposed to conscripts) and at the same time the property requirement was reduced to a nominal level by 150 BC, and finally scrapped in the consulship of Gaius Marius (107 BC)."

As far as I can tell this passage is uncited.

However, in reading 'Soldiers & Silver, Mobilizing Resources in the Age of Roman Conquest' by Michael J. Taylor an academic monograph, he makes a competing claim. On page 41.

"In Polybius’s day (probably since the introduction of the denarius), it had fallen to 4,000 sextantal (weighing 2 unciae) asses, or 400 denarii, equal in bronze weight to 800 light-libral asses, a modest drop. By the dramatic date of Cicero’s Republic, in 129 BCE, it had dropped again to 375 sestertii, or 93 3/4 denarii, where it remained into the Imperial period."

And here he cites Livy "All Latins present were assigned to a single voting tribe by lot, diluting their influence: Livy 25.3.16."

So first of all I guess we should go into the specific, instead of saying it is at a "nominal level". Secondly, was it scrapped by Marius as the text claims? Or did the property requirement go on into the Imperial age, as Taylor claims?

Also note that the text gives 150 whereas Sawyer only gives "in polybius's" day. For the first reduction.

~2025-31971-42 (talk) 04:07, 7 January 2026 (UTC)