Talk:Somali Region

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The two articles are about the same topic. I see no reason why they should be separate. 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree, it's weird to have to go back and forth on two pages for geological, historical, and current information on the same place. Mohamedamin120 (talk) 14:19, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

It's not unheard of for political and geographic areas that overlap to have different articles so I think they should stay separate unless there is some real good evidence for why they should be merged. But of course, clear linking between the two. Moritoriko (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

They're both about the same subject. Please go read the articles 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:50, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

The hatnote on Somali region already says what needs to be said. This article is about a regional state in Ethiopia. For historical context about this region, see Ogaden Somali Region was formed in 1995 so it is incorrect to talk about events prior to that as happening in the Region (capital R). The whole History section of Ogaden cannot belong in the other page. Moritoriko (talk) 15:49, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

@Moritoriko There is no reason to separate the history of the Somali Region from its main article. This isn't a case of a just a "political and geographic overlap", the Somali Region is the Ogaden.

As for the Somali Region was formed in 1995 argument, I can give you a similar bad reasoning: The Federal Republic of Somalia was formed in 2012 so its incorrect to talk about events prior to that as happening in the State (capital S) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 19:40, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Ogaden an ancient term for the region which predates entity called Somali region of Ethiopia hence should be preserved. The Ogaden (clan) seem to have later adopted it for themselves. Today there's some opposition over its usage due to ignorance of its prominence in the past. I suggest pre 1995 mentions should be moved to Ogaden article. Magherbin (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

this is just rephrasing the previous comment without giving any good reason for those two articles to remain split 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:44, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

And? Is there a prerequisite to have differing opinions? Magherbin (talk) 21:15, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Magherbin Yes. WP:ILIKEIT/WP:IDONTLIKEIT are not valid rationales in these types of discussions. You have to base your opinion on a wp policy 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 21:30, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per above and Ogaden region and Somali region are different.

QalasQalas (talk) 09:55, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas I've explained above that they clearly aren't different. You gotta explain why they are different 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:57, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@Abo Yemen Ogaden is a historical and geographic term referring to a specific area of the eastern part of Ethiopia, primarily a vast semi-arid plateau south and southeast of the Ethiopian Highlands. It stretches between Somalia-Ethiopia border and includes Hararghe, Bale and Sidamo etc, nearer cities like Harar, Dire Dawa and Jigjiga.

Mean while Somali region is a modern administrative region that was established as regional state under the 1994 Constitution. It is Ethiopia’s largest region by area which encompassing Ogaden plateau and additional areas. Its capital is Jijiga.

so I suggest you to create a separate article History of Ogaden or rename or merging it btw this page is history region.

See WP:DISAMBIG; Ogaden War, Ogaden National Liberation Front, Ogaden (clan), Ogaden Basin, Insurgency in Ogaden, Ogaden Anbassa, 2007–2008 Ethiopian crackdown in Ogaden, and Ogaden horse QalasQalas (talk) 10:53, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas I have no problems with renaming this to "History of the Somali Region" 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 10:59, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

You can't, is it because Somali region was region was established 1994!!

Ogaden history was 17s 18s and 19s QalasQalas (talk) 11:01, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas the federal republic of somalia was established only in 2012. Using your logic, we should only list the history of somalia from 2012 onwards and should have no mentions of the land of the punts and all that ancient history 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 11:05, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

let's oalso not forget about the fact that the puntland region of somalia was only established in 1998 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 11:06, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Yes, because Somalia history and government history is different, Somali was shined 14s, btw modern state history was began 1960s four different government, Somali republic 1960-69, Somali democratic republic 1969-1991, Civil war 1991-2000, TNG 2004-04, TFG 2004-12, FGS 2012-present. QalasQalas (talk) 11:10, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas how different is it exactly? why should we keep somali related history stuff in a single article but keep the Ogaden, literally an old name for the somali region (and even the article reflects this), in separate articles? Does this have something to do with somalia's failure to capture the region during the Ogaden War? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 11:19, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

No it's NOT but carefully read/review Ogaden history then let's snowball and make a vote decision. QalasQalas (talk) 11:28, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas well i want you to read the lead section and then look at the maps on both the Ogaden and Somali Region articles. All the oppose votes here are based on WP:ILIKEIT 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 11:31, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Idk, but Somali history is a stub but OGADEN history is well covered and too long to read and that's why? QalasQalas (talk) 11:34, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@QalasQalas it's not long enough to warrant a split. Go read WP:ARTICLESIZE 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 11:41, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello, have you given a thought to the shear amount of rerouting links you would kill by merging the ogaden article into the somali region? Merging in my view and wikipedia standards is already a not good idea, but merging ogaden into somali region? at least the other way it would still stay relevant. But by doing this change all history revolving around the Ogaden region before the creation of this state by Ethiopian government will be rendered basically USELESS, People will asks themselves what is ogaden and they cant even click the link. Your solution might be to reroute to the newly merged somali region article you are talking about. That will just make things even more extremely confusing.

Do you have any counter arguments to this ABO YEMEN? You seem to be the only one Supporting for this change so far. I am assuming good faith. If I violated any wikipedia policies just tell me so I can learn Im new to this. Dervish10 (talk) 07:04, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I am STRONGLY against this IDEA. Reasoning Below: Dervish10 (talk) 06:51, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

OPPOSE Ogaden and Somali Region are two EXTREMELY different things. One is a label created by Ethiopia. Another is not only the name of the land region, but the namesake of many different things. Im not to well versed on Wikipedia Rulings and WP codes but this violates probably like ten so I am Opposed against this change at all costs. I also agree with everyone here in the comments who has the OPPOSE and gave much stronger arguements than me but Yes EXTREME OPPOSE Dervish10 (talk) 06:54, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

WP:STRONG 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:56, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Interesting, Ive seen a couple people use STRONG before in other votes. Nevertheless, my use of EXTREME does not hide the fact that the majority opinion is OPPOSE. So what is next here ABO YEMEN. Dervish10 (talk) 07:06, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Oppose This article doesnt completely comprise the old Ogaden region which sources indicate consists only the north east part of modern region (mainly east of Harar city). Ogaden territory also included land held by the Jarso, as well as Hawiye clan, for example towns of Chinaksen, Gursum and Babile which are now under a different region (Oromia). Ogaden omitted the north town Jaldessa but this town is in the Somali region today. Rauf Pasha outlined Emirate of Harar's designation of Ogaden in the 1800s see p.100 "The original boundaries of the Harar emirate were as follows: from the coast—Gildessa; from the northeast—al-Awash River; from the southeast—the Ogaden tribes"

See also Ogaden's territory outlined from the 19th centuries documents of the Emirate of Harar which explains Jarso Oromo territory runs east into Ogaden p.43 "Die Jarso im Nordosten und Osten. Die Jarso Oromo bevölkern den vorderen Teil des "an landschaftlichen Schönheiten reiche[n] Gebirgsland[es]," welches "im Osten und Nordosten von der grossen Marar- oder Bunprairie begrenzt [wird), die im Westen in einem mächtigen Bogen bis an den Hawásch, im Osten bis tief nach Ogadên reicht."

It should be noted Babile was designated part of Ogaden as late as 1980 see Africa Research Bulletin: "The Front claims that its forces recently killed 2,200 Ethiopian soldiers in clashes at Babile and Jigjiga important Government centres in the Ogaden" . Magherbin (talk) 01:09, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

then this "old Ogaden region" is a completely different topic that should have its own article 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:18, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

This new article you are proposing to make already exists, its Ogaden page. I think the best course of action is to edit the ogaden page and remove any relation it has to Somali Region that state was created by the Ethiopian government in the 90s.

What is going to stop someone else from making this same arguement on the old Ogaden Page aswell? Dervish10 (talk) 07:13, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Oppose I disagree with any merger. The Ogaden is best kept as its own article separate from the Somali Region. The latter is for the modern state, while the former is for the historical context of the region. Limegreencoral (talk) 07:35, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

what are you basing your opposition upon? This is just a WP:POVFORK 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 07:47, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

One is a political article about a modern state and the other is a historical overview of a geographic region. They're really not the same. They encompass a similar general area sure, but it's best to keep the articles separate. Limegreencoral (talk) 08:02, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

and why cant they be in the same article? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:04, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

Because they're not the same. The Somali Region state is a modern creation and not 1:1 what is considered the Ogaden region. The Ogaden is larger, including areas not under the Somali Region. Limegreencoral (talk) 07:09, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

@Limegreencoral The article says nothing about that. You'll have to bring sources that say that they aren't the same thing 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 07:13, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - The Ogaden is an ethno-cultural region, with an extensive bibliography of sources pertaining to that specific geographic part of the world. The name, has historically and in modern times been in wide circulation, both locally and internationally, including in recent headlines (about resource extraction or the still active independence movement) by major news organisations in favour of the term 'Somali Region'. The latter is a political state and administration in Ethiopia, see Tibet and the Tibet Autonomous Region for a similar case where content overlaps, but a separation of articles is still maintained. - --GoldenDragonHorn (talk) 20:42, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Not a policy based vote + WP:OTHER is not a valid reason to oppose + The Greenland article is both about the Island (i.e. geographic and "ethno-cultural" region) and the political entity 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 21:05, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Is there an alternative name for Greenland? In this proposal for a merger there is also the issue of the Ogaden being a long-disputed region with a still active independence movement, in which case the erasure of a historically used term in favour of the name of a modern political administration can be considered as Wikipedia taking the position of the central government by favouring one over the other. Not to mention there are multiple 'Somali regions' in Somalia and neighbouring countries, potentially adding to the confusion as a reader, while the 'Ogaden' is a precise and unique term that refers only to that specific geographic locale, and as such is an valuable term of identification. In any case, I stumbled upon this merger talk when it was added to the WikiProject Somalia talk page, these were my two cents. - GoldenDragonHorn (talk) 21:19, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

WP:OTHER says "an entire comment should not be dismissed because it includes a comparative statement like this". That's not the main argument @GoldenDragonHorn was making. As explained in an earlier comment, political and geographic areas that may have some overlap can have different articles. It should be noted though that the Somali Region state founded in 1995 does not extend as deep into Hararghe, Bale, and Sidamo like the Ogaden region does. Limegreencoral (talk) 16:08, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

It's still not a policy based vote and the "it was established only in 1995" argument is not a valid reason to have those articles split. Like, read the first sentence of the lead section. It clearly says that the "Ogaden" is a only but a historic name for the region 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:29, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

It being established in 1995 is relevant because it is a modern administrative division that does not fully encompass what is considered to be the Ogaden region. The Ogaden is larger, and as mentioned above, some of the settlements that are considered to be part of the Ogaden are not governed under the Somali Region state. Limegreencoral (talk) 16:43, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

Greenland as a geographic region and a ethnocultural region share the same name first of all.

Also lets address the elephant in the room, there have been a handful of wars over this region and the Somali Region is solely for the ethiopian political state information. Dervish10 (talk) 06:59, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

the Somali Region is the Ogaden (a mere historic name), and it is part of Ethiopia 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 07:03, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Somali Region and Ogaden are not interchangeable. You see things like this, they are contested. You cannot come to the full opinion that ethiopia is controlling the Ogaden. Ogaden is much more than the Somali region as Multiple users have stated. Merging this article would be extremely damaging to the Somali History on wikipedia. These changes have massive effects a lot of people look on wikipedia for their Research so do not come to hasty conclusions like this and please listen to the consensus and dont inject you opinion into this. Dervish10 (talk) 07:10, 21 July 2025 (UTC)