Talk:Southern Michigan

I think not. What is the source or justification for this apparently arbitrary decision? I say "apparently arbitrary" because I can find no evidence that the regions of Michigan are official governmental designations.

• The media (Lansing State Journal, and TV Stations WLNS, WILX, WSYM) all refer to Lansing as being in Mid-Michigan.

• A Google search for the terms Lansing and "Mid Michigan" turns up many hits that would lead one to believe that Lansing is a part of "Mid-Michigan.

• Conversely, a Google search for Lansing and "Southern Michigan" turns up mostly references where Lansing happens to be mentioned in the same work as a reference to something outside of the Lansing area (in Southern Michigan).

• There are a number of businesses and organizations based in Lansing with "Mid-Michigan" in their title. In the Lansing phone book, I find at least 50 businesses listed whose name begins with "Mid-Michigan" (or "Mid Michigan"). I find one whose name begins with "Southern Michigan".

• Ingham County is not included in any of the Michigan Planning & Development Regions that include "South" or "Southern" in the region name.^[1]

• Lansing is listed among the cities in "Mid-Michigan" by Indopedia.^[2]

• Lansing is listed among the cities of "Central Michigan" by Bonosearch.^[3] Certainly not necessarily a strong source for verification of fact, but arguably more evidence of the commonly-accepted definition of "Central Michigan".

I would argue that the boundary between "Mid" (or Central) and "Southern" Michigan lies somewhere south of Lansing and somewhere just north of Jackson. Perhaps Leslie is nearer the border. I believe that one could safely draw the border to include all of Ingham County.

On these grounds, I suggest that in the name of factual accuracy, Lansing be moved (at least in Wikipedia) from "Southern Michigan" to "Central Michigan" (for which "Mid-Michigan" is said to be a synonym).

I might go a step further (and perhaps out on a limb) to suggest that all of the "Michigan Region" articles are original research, opinion of the original author, and are insufficiently documented with sources or references. The definitions of the regions of Michigan are subjective and not even agreed upon in common usage. They are not official governmental definitions. That being the case, perhaps all of the "Michigan Region" articles qualify for deletion.

References:

--TRosenbaum 13:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, you have some good reasons. Having come from the Central Michigan area (closer to Mt. Pleasant), I have found that the Saginaw Valley is generally considered to be "Central" Michigan, and Lansing is somewhat outside that. However, these regions are certainly not inventions of the authors: you have documented for yourself many uses of Mid-Michigan, Central Michigan, and Southern Michigan. However, the exact borders definitely are subjective, hence this discussion. :) Why not just be bold and move Lansing in the articles, instead of going around adding the "dubious" templates? -- dcclark (talk) 01:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I am planning to make the change and put Lansing into Central Michigan. What is slowing me down is that I will need to produce a new "Michigan Region Map" image redrawing the boundaries. --TRosenbaum 16:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

The issue here I see (and I'm a Lansing native myself) is that there are at least two separate and distinct "Mid-Michigan's" as perceived by media and local interests: The "Mid-Michigan" that consists of Lansing-Jackson (corresponding to that particular media market) and then the "Mid-Michigan" consisting of Bay City-Saginaw-Midland-Flint (also corresponding to that particular media market grouping).

Regionally speaking, I myself would realign the whole "Southern Michigan / Mid Michigan / Thumb" categorization as:

Lansing-Jackson - Ingham, Jackson, Eaton and Clinton counties, and if you want to throw in towns on the edges such as Portland, Perry, Fowlerville and Howell then that's fine.

Tri Cities-Flint - Midland, Bay, Saginaw and Genesee counties

Thumb - Tuscola, Sanilac, Huron, Lapeer and St. Clair (even though there is some overlap in the southern counties w/the northern edges of Metro Detroit. From my experience folks from Lapeer or Imlay City or Port Huron are much more likely to identify themselves as part of the "thumb" than those from the Tri-Cities or even Flint.

The remnant of Southern Michigan: basically the southern tier of counties including Branch, Hillsdale and Lenawee Counties. The Southern Michigan state correctional facility, for instance, is located in Coldwater, the county seat of Branch County.

Fatwa Dakkash 18:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I hate to but in but I do have one comment. According to MDOT in thier 5 year and 20 year transporation plans they have Lansing and Ann Arbor and what not in the University region. Muskegon, Grand Rapids, and Holland in the Grand Region with Kalamazoo and Battle Creek in the Southwest Region. But that is the only STATE approved region borders I myself have seen on the State Website. --Mihsfbstadium (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, this should help sove our problems. With Southern Michigan being a subregion of Central Michigan, they will both have seprate identies, and seprate pages, but they will both be in the same region of Michigan. I did the same thing to the Thumb and Flint/Tri-Cities. Please help me on adding more to Southern and Central Michigan. Cgord (talk) 17:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The map that you added on June 11, 2008 (replacing the previous map) seems confusing. The article title is Southern Michigan, but the new map does not show any region labelled as such. Perhaps the previous map is better suited to illustrate the article? --Thomprod (talk) 16:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I still think the current map does not illustrate what portion of the state is included as being part of "Southern Michigan". Some region of the map should actually be labelled "Southern Michigan". --Thomprod (talk) 01:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I lived in Kalamazoo most of my life. I never (repeat NEVER) heard anyone refer to the Kalamazoo area as anything other than West Michigan. Evidence? WWMT, the Kalamazoo based TV station chose their call letters (when they changed from WKZO) to reference "West Michigan Television. The Nielsen rating area is Kalamazoo/Battle Creek/Grand Rapids. The Kalamazoo County Convention and Visitors Authority belongs to the West Michigan Tourism Association. I could go on, but you get the point. Since there are no references to this article, I would propose that the counties west of old US-27 be merged into West Michigan where they belong. After all it isn't the Southern Michigan University Broncos! Gtwfan52 (talk) 03:55, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I have also seen Lansing and environs usually considered to be its own region, too. The most usual split I have seen is Metro Detroit and Metro Lansing as their own areas; Everything north of M-46 (Sometimes US 10) as Northern Michigan, and old US 27 splitting east and west south of there. Gtwfan52 (talk) 04:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)