Talk:Tom Collins

Not sure how this fit in with things, but the 1818 phrase, Tom Collins, whether or no was used among sailors to signify whether they will or will not, such as in whether or not they will participate in an event.^[1]

. -- Suntag ☼ 06:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that absolutely belongs, as the earliest known use of the phrase. Nice job on all the additional material. Rees11 (talk) 03:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I think that the 1818 phrase Tom Collins, whether or no could have given its name to The Great Tom Collins hoax of 1874. That would require research, but it seems a lead worth following. -- Suntag ☼ 15:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The new article is great, but the picture of the glass has to go. Some seem to think it is the same thing as a highball glass, just smaller. This is incorrect. It is perfectly cylindrical. See the link to the picture in an earlier post above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domanator (talk • contribs) 00:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, thanks for removing it. Now we just need a good photo of a real Collins glass. Rees11 (talk) 01:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

The glass is still wrong! Its a Tom Collins because of the glass and its in the wrong glass >_< user:garbagefan2424 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.173.174.198 (talk) 21:40, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Both "Jerry Thomas'" and "Jerry Thomas's" are considered correct. Strunk and the New York Times prefer the latter. WP:MOS suggests either can be used, but the latter "is more common for modern names and common nouns." I see no reason to change what's already written. Rees11 (talk) 17:48, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I was trying to verify the recipe, since many of the other IBA drinks on Wikipedia don't match the IBA recipe, and found much to my surprise that Tom Collins is not on the IBA list of official cocktails, although John Collins is. Is this a mistake at the IBA web site or has it really been de-listed? IBA Offical Cocktails Rees11 (talk) 14:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Not an IBA cocktail?

Yes it is just follow the link John Collins and you´ll see. Despite i don´t agree with the recipe shown, nor i agree in majority with the contents of this article. What about John Collins from Londons Limmer's Tavern? Nobody even mentiont this possibility. Even the name causes confusion. In the 1800 and 1900 Old Tom Gin was the popular Gin wich might give a bigger hint to the origen. Also that soda water was a English invention. Ther is more if you look closer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donbeach (talk • contribs) 19:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Silly me, I was looking under "T" for "Tom." Rees11 (talk) 22:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok...since it's fairly clear that the IBA knows what the IBA official drinks are, and they specify the JOHN Collins, and not the TOM Collins...we can then conclude that a TOM Collins is NOT an IBA cocktail. If this means that there should be a John Collins page, or something else, I leave up to the more experienced Wiki members. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.55.14 (talk) 13:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This is one of the cocktails I've encountered frequently in literature, any chance you all might help me brainstorm works of fiction where this drink makes an appearance? I just hit it halfway through "The Garden of Eden" by Hemingway. Skweeds (talk) 09:54, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• • I agree with this, there is a popular Simpsons gag featuring Tom Collins mix that I belive should be considered for this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Horus86 (talk • contribs) 03:20, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

I've altered the 'Confused Origin' section to include the research of David Wondrich showing that there is in fact good reason to believe that a Collins was originally known as a John Collins, after the barman who served them in Limmer's Old House in London during the 1790's. However, bearing that in mind it might be a good idea to redraft the entire history section of this entry for greater clarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by General blackblood (talk • contribs) 01:50, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I've subsequently added some of the relevant info about the John Collins to the History section, and made some clarifications about the context of the Tom Collins Hoax of 1874 but it could still do with considerable cleaning up as this canard still features prominently.General blackblood (talk) 01:39, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Here are the corrections to your Jerry Thomas and Tom Collins pages: It is unclear who invented the drink. Contrary to what our so called “cocktail experts” tell us, cocktail bloggers, as well as Wikipedia, Jerry Thomas did not publish the Tom Collins until his posthumous 1887 edition of Jerry Thomas’s Bar-tender’s Guide or How to Mix Drinks, but appears as a class of drinks as he has them listed as “Tom Collins Gin”, “Tom Collins Whiskey" “Tom Collins Brandy”. The Tom Collins is a great example of how wrong information spreads. Someone writes in a book that it appears in Jerry Thomas’s 1862 book or the Steward and Barkeeper's Manual of 1869 where there is suppose to be a Jim Collins, and without checking the source, this false information spreads and becomes truth. Anyone that simply goes through these two books for a few minutes can see there are no Collins mentioned in them at all.

A drink known as John Collins’ Gin is published in the 1884 book, The Modern Bartender’s Guide by O. H. Byron. Yet the oldest published account of a Tom Collins I could find was from Harry Johnson’s 1882 book, New and Improved Bartender’s Manual or How to Mix Drinks of the Present Style where he has a Tom Collins and a John Collins and asks for Holland Gin also known as Genièvre for the John Collins and Old Tom Gin for the Tom Collins.

In the 1884 Scientific Barkeeping book we see a drink called Tom Collins but it uses Whiskey and the John Collins uses Holland gin. In the 1887 edition of Jerry Thomas’s book, there is a Tom Collins Whiskey, Tom Collins Brandy and Tom Collins Gin and is the first time Jerry Thomas recorded any Collins. There is no mention of Old Tom Gin in either of these 2 books, under the name Tom Collins, which suggests to me, contrary to popular belief, that had nothing to do with the name Tom Collins.

In summary, Jerry Thomas did not publish the Tom Collins until his 1887 book, the oldest published account of a Tom Collins I could find was from Harry Johnson’s 1882 book, New and Improved Bartender’s Manual or How to Mix Drinks of the Present Style and there is no Collins mentioned at all in Steward and Barkeeper's Manual of 1869.

Someone deleted, and I just restored, section on Tom Collins Hoax of 1874. It apparently was a real thing: see the sheet music for songs named "Tom Collins" whose lyrics describe this, in Library of Congress source. --198.179.62.65 (talk) 15:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Help needed: would an editor please create/re-create redirect Tom Collins Hoax of 1874 to the anchor Tom Collins#Tom Collins Hoax of 1874. 198.179.62.65 (talk) 15:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)