Talk:Trilantic Capital Partners

An edit of this type reflects the wrong philosophy for article writing. Wikipedia seeks to cover the topic, not the current situation. While "WP:Notability" doesn't apply to article sections, its idea of "enduring notability" is useful - namely, if a company's investment in Istanbul Doors was notable, then it will always be notable. Therefore, the section on "current investments" should be merely "investments", or at least partnered with a section on "past investments", which should contain this content. See also WP:Recentism. (The actual policy is WP:NOTNEWS, but I'm afraid that vaguely written policy is so often misinterpreted that it leads people astray more often than not)

I should add that covering prior investments should be especially useful for encyclopedic purposes, because I assume it is possible to find out exactly how much they bought their stake in the company for and how much they sold it for, whether the company grew or contracted during that period, etc. Wnt (talk) 16:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Wnt, this is a valid point. I agree, I must have misinterpreted the policy. For encyclopaedic purposes, I agree there should be a section on “past investments”. Not sure what to do now in the light of the recent edit by user Smartse who has removed the current investment section. Do you agree with this step?Kt1502 (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi all,

It’s Kat again. I’ve made some amends to the article but feel like there is still a way to improve it. Below I’ve drafted additional updates to the article I believe would make the article look balanced, providing more information on the European side of the business. For now it's still looking too US centric.

Let me know your thoughts

Best,

Kat

I can understand why Smartse removed the section. I think a much better method for an Investments section would be for it to be all in text organized in paragraphs, rather than in tables. This way you would be able to organize it chronologically, discussing the entire investment history of the company. The reason why Smartse removed the section is that it had such long descriptions of the investment groups themselves, which is unnecessary. Just put in text that they were an investment for Trilantic and when and what the investment was regarding. Some word juggling to make sure the section isn't boring will probably be necessary, but I think this would be a much better way to set up an Investments section. Silverseren^C 04:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Should we even include the investments at all? Unless they are discussed in high-quality sources like the FT and NYT I'm not sure we should be including them. From my perspective, the listing of every investment makes the article an advert for the fund. If it's only been discussed in poor quality sources or press releases we shouldn't include it. SmartSE (talk) 14:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Except i'm sure there's plenty that have been discussed in sources like FT. And, like you said, if they're covered in high-quality sources, then we do have a reason to include them. Since this is an investment company, including a history of its investments seems appropriate and would be a part of the history regardless. Silverseren^C 22:26, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I use the following rule of thumb: if there is a list of products, investments, customers, departments, etc. that exceeds 10, we do not want to mention them individually. Instead, we want a summary, followed by the most notable examples. I would like to see an investments section which discusses the overall strategy and type of investments they make, followed by a few examples of their largest or most notable investments. This is the equivalent of an "Items and Services" section for most companies. CorporateM (Talk) 17:33, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I have reverted back to an old version of the lead. As someone bought up on Jimmy's talk page, the new one was not neutral. When I looked into it some more, the FT articles that were referenced did not support any of the text either. Even with a good reference, I struggle to see how "seeking to make investments in fundamentally sound and growing companies in North America and Europe with the aim of achieving superior (risk-adjusted) returns" can belong anywhere on Wikipedia. SmartSE (talk) 14:39, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, it's Kat again. Thank you for your explanation SmartSE (talk), I've pulled together a new lead paragraph for Trilantic that is neutral in sentiment - please see below. It reflects what Trilantic does and is backed up by two good quality sources - the InvestmentEurope and RealDeals. Please let me know your thoughts. Best,Kat

Trilantic Capital Partners (Trilantic) is an independent, transatlantic private equity firm focused on making investments in North America and Europe. Trilantic has a particular interest in growth companies with international aspirations, and takes an active role in creating value post acquisition through enhancing financial reporting, strategic planning and risk management practices. Trilantic has historically partnered with industrials and family-owned businesses as well as providing growth capital to outstanding management teams. Kt1502 (talk) 14:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. These suggestions are not an improvement to the article

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Atlasowa (talk • contribs)

Sorry for taking a while to get back to you - have been very busy IRL. Those sources look good, but can you add inline citations to show where the information is coming from? There are also still a fair superfluous words in there. Something like this would be better:

Trilantic Capital Partners (Trilantic) is an independent, transatlantic private equity firm focused on making investments in North America and Europe. Trilantic has a particular interest invests in growth companies with international aspirations looking to expand into international markets, and takes an active role in creating creates value post acquisition through enhancing financial reporting, strategic planning and risk management practices. Trilantic has historically partnered with industrials and family-owned businesses as well as providing growth capital to outstanding management teams.

I also can't access the realdeals.eu.com source - is there any chance you could email me a copy? Cheers SmartSE (talk) 19:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for your suggestions. I agree with all your edits! Did you get my email with the realdeals.eu.com article? I've added the suggestions citations below

Trilantic Capital Partners (Trilantic) is private equity firm making investments in North America and Europe. Trilantic invests in growth companies looking to expand into enhancing into international markets, and creates value post creates value post acquisition through enhancing financial reporting, strategic planning and risk management practices.InvestmentEurope^[1] Trilantic has historically partnered with industrials and family-owned businesses as well as providing growth capital to outstanding management teams.realdeals.eu.com^[2]

Please let me know your thoughts Kt1502 (talk) 15:54, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. These suggestions are not an improvement to the article. Nor can I see explanations why Trilantic Capital Partners and their paid PR consultant "believe that the current firm description is inaccurate". --Atlasowa (talk) 13:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I did some cleanup of irrelevant information, unsourced data, and trimming the lead to a more appropriate size, etc.

Here are the things I think the article still needs:

• A little more clarity around how the bankruptcy led to the formation of Trilantic specifically. I don't think we need much information about the bankruptcy in general, but just why/how it led to Trilantic being founded, who founded it, etc.

>> Think this is already extensively described in the History section but the five founding partners were: Vittorio Pignatti, Chairman of Trilantic Europe; Javier Banon and Joe Cohen who are based in London; and Charlie Ayres and Daniel James who are based in New York.

>> There is also a typo in the last sentence of the lead paragraph - it should read: In 2009, Trilantic was formed by its five founding partners following the bankruptcy of Lehman.Kt1502 (talk) 16:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

• Recent history. Currently the article has no history beyond after it was founded in 2008. We could fill this five year gap if there are sources.

>> What about this paragraph? Or were you looking for something longer?: Since inception, Trilantic Europe has continued to invest completing deals such as the exit of MW Brands, Istanbul Doors Group and Falcon Equity and the recent acquisition include Euskatel. Trilantic Europe also owns Clarion events, Gamenet and LeYaKt1502 (talk) 16:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

• Citations for the Citation Needed tags.

>> Will work on this Kt1502 (talk) 16:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

• Investments. I would say we need about 3-5 of its most notable investments, as well as some sources about the company's overall investment strategy and profile.

>> Investment strategy: Trilantic’s investment strategy focuses on European growth companies with international aspirations. Trilantic focuses on value post acquisition by formulating a growth plan with management and existing lenders. The company has historically partnered with industrials and family-owned businesses as well as providing growth capital to outstanding management teams. Trilantic's €574m Fund IV Europe is still investing, having completed deals in Spain and Italy last year such as Spanish telecoms company Euskaltel and the Turkish restaurant group Istanbul Doors. source 1 and source 2 Kt1502 (talk) 16:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

>> Most Notable Investments:

ISTANBUL DOORS RESTAURANT GROUP is an operator of seven high-end restaurants and 20 casual dining restaurants primarily based in Turkey. source

EUSKALTEL S.A. is an integrated telecom operator in the Basque region, Spain, providing fixed services (fixed line, broadband and pay-TV) through a fully invested digital cable network and mobile services as a Mobile Virtual Network Operator. Founded in 1995, the company is headquartered in Bilbao and has approximately 550 employees. source

MW BRANDS SAS is a vertically integrated manufacturer and distributor of ambient seafood, principally canned tuna. It operates the leading French and UK brands: Petit Navire and John West as well as four production facilities located in Seychelles, Ghana, Portugal and France. source

MEDICLINIC INTERNATIONAL is an international owner-operator of private hospitals that provides comprehensive and high-quality hospital services. It is the number one operator of private hospitals in Switzerland, the number three in South Africa, and also a large player in the UAE. source

MAREX SPECTRON is a leading independent commodities broker with a strong metal and agricultural franchise and presence in FX and Financial Futures trading. source 1 and source 2

• Organization (maybe). I came across a court document that was explaining how there were actually three legal entities that jointly form "Trilantic". Primary sources are not only acceptable for this section, but preferred in my opinion. See example on Credit Suisse's corporate structure here. However, we only want this section if the corporate structure is complicated or unique.

>> Will look into this but don't think it is unique enough Kt1502 (talk) 16:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

CorporateM (Talk) 18:18, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kt. Some of the staff-written blurbs from RealDeals are not high-profile enough of a source to validate the significance of the deal in the firm's history. Reuters and the Financial Times are both adequate but both are included already. I can't access the RealDeals Q&A. As a Q&A it's considered a primary source, but may still be usable in some cases. I'll add a thing or two from here though. CorporateM (Talk) 13:00, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi M. Thanks for updating the paragraph. I've noticed a few errors though:

1. TCP exited its investment in Istanbul Doors in 2012 after buying it several years before. Info here: http://www.altassets.net/private-equity-news/by-news-type/deal-news/lehman-spin-out-trilantic-sells-istanbul-doors-group.html

2. On the typical exit from each acquisition within three-to-five years - you've mentioned it twice. I wasn't sure whether I could go in and fix this. Think the first mention is correct, the second one could be expanded to say “Trilantic doesn’t participate in auctions and often makes investments in family-owned private businesses”. This broadens the point and provides greater context and information. Istanbul Doors is an example of this. The most recent article in the Private Equity International backs up the information. Here's a quote from the article as it's behind a paywall (http://www.privateequityinternational.com/ArticleSearch.aspx?search=Trilantic):

"On the Record: Trilantic's Vittorio Pignatti-Morano

Trilantic Partners Europe is the former European mid-market buyout arm of defunct bank Lehman Brothers. The team – many of whom have worked together for 15 years – seek out complex off-market deals, and have been actively targeting southern Europe in recent years. Chairman Vittorio Pignatti-Morano explains why

posted - 01 Oct 2013 16:05 GMT

James Taylor

Where do you see the biggest opportunity at the moment?

Europe has so many opportunities in the mid-market. We try to focus on places where the opportunities are best priced, where we see the fewest competitors, and where the preference is for solutions rather than auctions. There’s an enormous opportunity in deploying capital where the capital markets are the least efficient. So in certain countries where you can count the number of IPOs on one hand, there’s clearly a lot more need for permanent capital. It’s also true that in Europe, family ownership is much more common in Europe than it is in the US and the UK, which presents a continuous generational problem – and that’s an excellent source of dealflow, if you’re in the right place at the right time and you’re prepared to be flexible."

Thanks Kt1502 (talk) 11:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I fixed the redundancy and the error. With the last paragraph, I'm not sure where that's from or what the suggested edit is. CorporateM (Talk) 12:18, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks M - it's from Private Equity International, published earlier this week (1 Oct) and demonstrates that Trilantic sees the biggest opportunity in investments in family-owned private businesses. First article when you click on the link above). Think this would work:

... After a purchase is made, a team works with each portfolio company on financial reporting, planning, management incentives and risk management practices. Trilantic typically looks for an exit from each acquisition within three-to-five years. In 2012 Trilantic acquired Spanish telecoms company, Euskaltel. In the same year it also exited a European restaurant group Istanbul Doors. Trilantic doesn’t participate in auctions and often makes investments in family-owned private businesses. ...Kt1502 (talk) 13:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

This? Is it possible to send me the complete text? CorporateM (Talk) 14:38, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thought a direct link wouldn't help much.. check your inbox. Thanks Kt1502 (talk) 15:35, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It's a Q&A, which we generally consider to be a primary source. The introduction represents the voice of the journalist and says there has been a recent focus on southern Europe, but we already have our bases covered there. CorporateM (Talk) 17:18, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi CorporateM I was wondering - did you want me to update the list of Most Notable Investments as mentioned in the section above? I was discussing this with other editors some time ago and they said it would work (Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Trilantic_Capital_Partners#Better_method_for_Investments_section). Please let me know. Many thanks, Kt1502 (talk) 12:14, 12 November 2013 (UTC)