Talk:Windham Sadler
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 | Windham Sadler was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
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 | A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 31, 2022. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Windham William Sadler (pictured) made the first crossing of the Irish Sea by balloon in 1817, five years after his father had failed to achieve the same feat? | |||||||||
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Birthplace and National Identity Clarification
I notice that the article describes Windham William Sadler as an English balloonist born in Pimlico, London, but I have not found a reliable source explicitly supporting Pimlico as his place of birth. Meanwhile, the Dictionary of National Biography (1885-1900), states that Sadler was "born near Dublin in 1796" (see: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Sadler,_Windham_William).
Given this, should the article clarify the birthplace or consider describing him as an Irish balloonist? Or at least find a reliable source supporting Pimlico, London as his place of birth, noting the differing accounts about his place of birth? Airneog (talk) 01:20, 1 October 2025 (UTC) Airneog (talk) 00:05, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Airneog, the citation is at the end of the next sentence and is from a 2004 entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography by Hugh Torrens. The relevant extract is below. I used this over the 1897 DNB entry as a more modern publication but I am happy to add the alternative as a footnote - Dumelow (talk) 05:51, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Dumelow, thank you for your work on the article and for citing the 2004 Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB) entry by Hugh Torrens, which states that Windham William Sadler was born at 10 Stafford Row, Pimlico, London. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the ODNB as it is behind a paid subscription.
- I found the freely accessible 19th-century Dictionary of National Biography (DNB) volume 50 entry, which states that Sadler was "born near Dublin in 1796." You can view the old yellowed scanned original page here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_National_Biography_volume_50.djvu/124
- Since these two biographical sources place Sadler’s birthplace in two different countries — near Dublin in Ireland and in Pimlico, London in England — this difference is particularly significant.
- Given the importance of presenting a neutral and transparent account, and the importance of both sources, it seems to me that there is no rational way to choose one source above the other, and with that in mind may I suggest that the article needs to include both viewpoints equally with wording similar to the following:
- "Windham William Sadler's exact birthplace is disputed amongst reliable sources. The 19th-century Dictionary of National Biography states he was born near Dublin in Ireland, whereas the modern Oxford Dictionary of National Biography reports his birthplace as 10 Stafford Row, Pimlico, London, England. Until further evidence clarifies the matter, both claims are presented here to reflect the uncertainty" footnoting with references to each source.
- If you have the possibility to review the sources or research that led to changing the birthplace in the ODNB, or what evidence the ODNB is relying upon, it would be very interesting. I appreciate your kind consideration and your openness in engaging with me on this matter.
- [[User:Airneog|Airneog]] Airneog (talk) 18:22, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
Sadler, (William) Windham (1796–1824), balloonist and gas engineer, was born on 17 October 1796 at 10 Stafford Row, Pimlico, London, the fourth, but second surviving, son of James Sadler (bap. 1753, d. 1828), first English-born aeronaut, and his second wife, Martha Hancock.
- The ODNB is the updated version of the DNB. If they chose to update the birthplace they will have had good reason to do so. I have added the DNB Dublin birthplace as a footnote to the article but I don't think it is reasonable to afford the same weight to an 1897 work as to a 2004 one made under the supervision of one of the world's most renowned academic publishers - Dumelow (talk) 19:29, 1 October 2025 (UTC)