User talk:Box73

There's a fairly straightforward relationship between these two types of reinforcers and rewards: primary reinforcers are intrinsic rewards; intrinsic rewards and primary reinforcement do not require associative learning to occur in order to be rewarding/reinforcing; secondary reinforcers are associated with extrinsic rewards; both secondary reinforcement and extrinsic reward requires that classical/operant conditioning occur, thereby pairing a neutral stimulus (i.e., one that normally isn't rewarding or reinforcing in its own right) with a rewarding stimulus, before a neutral stimulus begins to function as a reinforcer and induce activation of the reward system. This relationship is mentioned here. I hope this helps. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 20:52, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

@Seppi333: I now understand the mechanism of Mr. Ed's gambling disorder!

Actually I see what you mean. The real issue is that for most people, money isn't really the reward, rather the entertainment and excitement of winning (or that possibility) are. That is intrinsically rewarding.

I made the reward/reinforcing reverse because it makes more sense read that way. If a primary reinforcer early on repeatedly failed to provide the reward, that reinforcer should wane.

I'd like to comment on: "Addiction ... occurs over time from chronically high levels of exposure to an addictive stimulus (e.g., morphine, cocaine, sexual intercourse, gambling, etc.)"

1. There is an issue of satiety in some cases (e.g., sex with the same person).
2. I'm concerned regarding a blanket statement about addiction resulting from chronic high levels of morphine. Dependence certainly occurs but when appropriate to relieve pain, addiction doesn't necessarily occur. The statement could have a fear mongering effect on physicians and patients. (Uncle Bob already has stage IV liver cancer, and in his last three months better he hurts a bit than we chance him becoming a drug addict.)

Lastly, has addressing DRD3 agonists inducing addictive behaviors (e.g., gambling) been considered? These so called impulse disorders clearly display addictive behavior. — βox73 (৳alk) 13:19, 2 January 2017 (UTC) βox73 (৳alk) 13:24, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about any typos/grammar issues in my response below; I haven't thoroughly proofread it.

• Your statement above - the one about how the failure to receive a reward which conditioned a secondary reinforcer causes extinction of the reinforcer - is correct. However, the time at which a reward is given relative to a secondary reinforcer doesn't matter in some cases or with some patterns of reinforcement. It's not necessary for a reward to be received before or at the same time as exposure to a reinforcer. For example, when secondary reinforcers pair with other stimuli to form chains of reinforcement that lead up to acquiring a reward, the intrinsic reward that ultimately established the sequence of reinforcers is attained only at the end of the sequence/chain (note: these reinforcers may provide an extrinsic reward at every step or some steps/points of reinforcement in the sequence though). In addiction, this phenomenon is often referred to as cue reactivity; secondary reinforcers for drug use - which are called "drug cues" - provide incentive salience (i.e., cause craving) for drug reward. While unusual, there have been documented cases where a secondary reinforcer also produces incentive salience for the secondary reinforcer itself (e.g., the sight of a crack pipe in a picture could cause compulsive wanting for a crack pipe and crack cocaine in some crack addicts).

ΔFosB accumulation from excessive drug use Top: this depicts the initial effects of high dose exposure to an addictive drug on gene expression in the nucleus accumbens for various genes in the Fos family. Bottom: this illustrates the progressive increase in ΔFosB expression in the nucleus accumbens following repeated twice daily drug binges, where these phosphorylated (35–37 kD) ΔFosB isoforms persist in the D1-type medium spiny neurons of the nucleus accumbens for up to 2 months.[1][2]

• Re: Addiction ... occurs over time from chronically high levels of exposure to an addictive stimulus:
  1. I'm aware that sexual appetite is typically sated when intercourse is repeatedly performed with the same person; but, based upon my understanding, this doesn't prevent the development of a sexual addiction, since activation of the reward system still occurs during intercourse in those circumstances. I imagine that the degree of dopamine and glutamate co-release from mesolimbic dopamine neurons is lower when intercourse is performed repeatedly with the same person though. I'm actually not entirely what circumstances (e.g., the frequency and duration of daily intercourse) are necessary for the development of a sexual addiction in a normal individuals; however, I'm well aware that drug-activated sexual addictions can and do occur in individuals using dopamine releasing agents, particularly amphetamine and methamphetamine which have well-documented cross-sensitizing effects on mesolimbic dopamine release (i.e., engaging in sexual activity while on amphetamine markedly enhances the amount of dopamine that is released from mesolimbic dopamine neurons at fixed doses of amphetamine) and sexual reward (i.e., they can induce a very strong aphrodisiac effect when sexual activity and drug use has been repeatedly paired; after pairing, drug use acts as a potent secondary reinforcer for sexual activity).
  2. The statement about repeated high-dose exposure to an addictive stimulus causing an addiction is correct, although the way you're interpreting it in your example isn't consistent with the intended meaning. When taken at sufficiently high doses over a long period of time (i.e., overdosing on a drug several times a week over a period of several months), an addictive drug will cause an addiction. This occurs because ΔFosB is induced in the nucleus accumbens from each drug binge, and small amounts of ΔFosB are phosphorylated and begin to accumulate, as shown in the diagram to the right (phospho-ΔFosB has an abnormally/exceptionally long half-life relative to virtually all other proteins in the neuron); once a sufficient amount has accumulated, addiction occurs as a result of ΔFosB's direct amplifying effect on incentive salience for drug reward.^{[note 1]}
     W.r.t. the example about morphine that you mentioned, neither low dose morphine therapy for the treatment of pain nor opioid replacement therapy provide doses of opioids that are high enough to allow ΔFosB to accumulate in mesolimbic neurons (for a given individual and any addictive drug, there is a threshold daily dose that allows ΔFosB to accumulate when doses are taken in excess of that threshold). Opioid replacement therapy is designed to alleviate the symptoms of opioid dependence without causing or maintaining an addiction. In other words, the treatment of heroin addiction with morphine uses doses of morphine that are inadequate to cause ΔFosB accumulation. Similarly, the treatment of ADHD with therapeutic doses of amphetamine involves doses of amphetamine that are inadequate to cause ΔFosB accumulation. However, it is possible that some individuals require sufficiently high doses of morphine which would allow ΔFosB to accumulate. As long as such therapy is only short-term (i.e., maybe a month at most), addiction isn't likely to occur; however, if sustained therapy is required with those doses, developing an addiction is a very real risk.
• The effect of direct/indirect dopamine agonists – like the DRD3 direct agonists that you mentioned or amphetamine (an indirect dopamine agonist) – on the development of addiction to various behaviors has been mentioned in the amphetamine, addiction, and sexual addiction articles; this phenomenon is called a dopamine dysregulation syndrome.

I hope this clarifies things. Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your help with improving articles on reward-related topics. I know we sometimes argue (a lot); however, I recognize that your intent is to improve articles and most of your edits in this subject area have been made improvements. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 19:31, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Since I remembered how confused I originally was about how incentive salience relates to classically conditioned operant reinforcers (i.e., secondary/conditioned reinforcers), this ref, might help clarify things if you're interested (ignore the computational aspects of that article). If you're not familiar with classical conditioning, I wouldn't bother trying to read that though. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 23:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

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I realize that this is a really long-delayed follow-up, but I figured I'd mention it here since it was relevant to a past conversation and IMO it's pretty interesting in its own right.

In the section that I just archived on the reward system talk page, I mentioned, "Berridge stated in one of his refs (I'll pull the quote tomorrow) something along the lines of an "aura of pleasure" might be associated with anticipation of a reward, but he never outright called it pleasure." I was referring to this passage from Berridge's "Pleasure systems in the brain" review:

Drug enhancement of incentive salience could make other people, events or actions in the world all seem more attractive, and be powerfully enabling of engagement with them, which might well carry an aura of euphoria even if not truly hedonic. Viewed this way, subjective reward experience may be partly synthesized from motivation and cognitive appraisal components, similar to many other emotions (Barrett et al., 2007). This mistaken appraisal explanation may also apply to cases of electrode self-stimulation described below.

I thought you might be interested in that excerpt since you added some stuff to the euphoria article a while back about euphoric seizure-related "auras" as well as non-pleasurable euphorias. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 23:19, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

@Seppi333: Thank you my friend.

Berridge's aura is more about a vague background feeling. As you may have mentioned before, he & Kringelbach also use "aura of euphoria" in "Neuroscience of affect: brain mechanisms of pleasure and displeasure":

One possibility is that some psychostimulant euphoria comes from the ‘wanting’ component of reward: a world that seems more attractive may well carry an aura of euphoria.

With epilepsy, an "aura" is actually a partial seizure that may or may not spread enough to cause a "clinical seizure" (where consciousness is lost). When blissful, the auras tend to show activity in the insula. Not surprisingly, these folks resist taking antiseizure meds.

I saw your reward system talk response to XUY49 about NIDA. Let me add:

• I ordered some NIDA educational material and discovered it is outsourced and copyrighted. So public domain isn't guaranteed and copy/paste might be a copyright issue.
• Exploring euphoria, I landed on an NIDA for Teens page saying, "The drug causes surges, like waves, of the brain chemical dopamine, which initially produce the euphoria." Elsewhere on the site it says, "Normally, the reward circuit responds to feelings of pleasure by releasing the neurotransmitter dopamine. Dopamine creates feelings of pleasure. Drugs take control of this system, causing large amounts of dopamine to flood the system. This flood of dopamine is what causes the “high” or intense excitement and happiness (sometimes called euphoria) linked with drug use."

What's going on with the refs at reward system? I see you fixed the boldface ones and thanks. Note the citation in the pleasure centers subsection (Berridge and Kringlebach, Neuroscience of Affect). I was going to fix the punctuation then discovered its contents are constructed in reverse order; after the first quoted sentence, it skips back three paragraphs. (Is this acceptable?) — 06:15, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Ahh. Thanks for the clarification about those auras.

• The quote in the Neuroscience of Affect citation was missing an ellipsis ("...") between the non-adjacent quoted clauses; I've fixed that and put them in the order in which they appeared in the source. I'm pretty sure that was a reference that Petergstrom added. As long as there's an ellipsis between non-adjacent clauses, it doesn't matter much if they're quoted out of order so long as the clauses are unrelated. I sometimes do this when I think a more notable quoted statement should be given more prominence (i.e., placed at the beginning of the quote) relative to other quoted statements; however, I sometimes unintentionally place unrelated quoted statements out of order. Ideally, quoted excerpts should be ordered in the sequence that they appear in the source.
• The main reason why I'm opposed to citing those NIDA information pages is that they contain extremely simplified/dumbed-down explanations that verge on being inaccurate. The policy-related reason for not citing that source is that most webpages on the NIDA site don't actually satisfy MEDRS. Dopamine itself may or may not cause acute subjective pleasure; if it does, it doesn't do this by signaling through the NAcc shell or VP hotspots. It's possible that dopamine does directly mediate acute subjective pleasure by signaling through the putative orbitofrontal cortex and insular cortex hotspots though. Indirectly, dopamine likely mediates pleasure in the NAcc/VP by inducing endogenous opioid and/or endocannabinoid release as a downstream effect (in which case, dopamine would mediate the endogenous opioid-releasing effect of amphetamine - amphetamine#Other neurotransmitters, peptides, and hormones).

If you see any other issues with the references at reward system (excluding those in the History section), let me know. I plan to reformat the references in the History section at some point in the future - I know that those are badly formatted ATM. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 20:05, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Thanks... Now to figure out why CheckWiki is finding something that isn't there. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:49, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

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Hello,

I am give you the heads-up that a number of editors believe that all Big Boy restaurants through the US are Bob's, especially in Michigan. Would you be able to find any citations in any recent reliable source that can pass WP:VERIFY which would be able distinguish between the two brands? All I can find on the Big Boy International website is a slight difference in menus but nothing on the website that identify which of the 81 restaurant locations are actually Bob's. Unfortunately blogs and similar self-published sources would fail WP:VERIFY.

A number of authors insist that all 81 restaurant locations are Bob's and it might not be too big of a stretch to argue that "Bob's Big Boy" as a separate identity does not exist anymore.

That being said, you might want to make a comment on this edit and this edit since you appear to know a lot about history of the Big Boy chain. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 01:24, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

@68.50.32.85: Please see my response and reasoning at Bob's Big Boy talk page.

Great response! I believe the key response to the other editors is that no single source exists that would be able to answer the simple question on how many Bob's are currently in operation, but it would require the use of many different sources (that hopefully have not gone stale) to correctly answer the question.

BTW, can you take a quick look at the Bob Wian article to which I quickly added a bunch of new sources (which was sorely lacking), but not enough time to properly rewrite the article (like adding a section about his political career and/or his work on various merchant associations that helped shaped future laws)? (I did not had time to look at the many historical newspaper articles about Wian that are available since the 1940s or the trade journals from the 1990s.) Thanks. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

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Since you are an expert on all things concerning Bob Wian's Big Boy, I thought you might want to know about the page move discussion for moving Johnie's Broiler to Bob's Big Boy Broiler that is currently going on at Talk:Johnie's Broiler#Requested move 9 July 2019 in the outside change that you might want to give your opinion on topic or even participate in the voting on the subject. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:43, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

@68.50.32.85: Hey, thanks. I would like to see what's happening. I'll check it out right now. — βox73 (৳alk) 01:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

No problems. Although it currently looks like the vote is to keep the current name, the major side effect of the interesting discussion seems to have produced active editing by experienced editors on that article (and also also Bob's Big Boy). (It is interesting that you had found the "dive bar" vandalism that appeared to have been embedded into the article for almost a decade and every editor since that time seemed to have missed.)

BTW, I just noticed that the Bob's Big Boy article lacks an Infobox that would summarize the article (which Google and other search engines uses to draw their information on). Do you think that the template {{Infobox brand}} would be more appropriate for that particular article than, say, the template {{Infobox company}}^{(Note: removed typo on 9 Aug 2019)} since Bob's had ceased being a company after Marriott sold the chain to Elias and Elias (and other franchisees) dropped their own brand? -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 01:40, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

@68.50.32.85: I believe the Food Network show "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" led an editor to believe the terms were synonymous and wikilink "dive bar" in good faith. It's encouraging to see the active editing. I hope my editing of that editing is as well received. Your pen is always needed.

I've pondered the Bob's Big Boy infobox too. I needn't tell you about the confusion between Big Boy and Bob's Big Boy. The brand template makes sense but it's unfamiliar to me. How about if we draft both infoboxes in a sandbox and see how they compare.

Do you know anything about the change of ownership of Big Boy? As you may know, Bob Liggett died recently already having quietly sold the company. The Michigan press published nothing aside from his obituary, perhaps because Liggett owned radio stations and a newspaper.

My friend, you are too humble for your tireless contributions. Thank you. — βox73 (৳alk) 06:49, 7 August 2019 (UTC) fix reply to βox73 (৳alk) 01:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I doubt the original "dive bar" was orginally done on good faith since the same edit had inserted other questionable things that were quickly removed the next day or so (except what you found). The code used, [[dive bar|drive-in]], is known as a "sneaky vandalism" since the wiki-link appears on first glance (in non-edit mode) to go to the article drive-in but actually links to dive bar.

Testing drafts of both infoboxes in a sandbox is a great idea. A well crafty Infobox should serve the same purpose as that used by a medical or scientific abstract, a quick summary on what the article is about. If we have a hard time trying to decide between the various of candidates, we could solicit additional opinions with the persons behind WP:MOS for their opinions. IMHO that people are most productive when there is a creative discussion among several persons who are interested in improving the article by exchanging different ideas.

It is news to me that Liggett had just died last month. I had previously read that he was in 70s and declining health and had made news by selling his other businesses. I think a section needs to be added about the management of Elias Inc. and later BBRI by CEOs Tony Michaels, Keith Sirois, and David Crawford. (I found out that Keith Sirois and David Crawford were also involved in another Michigan area business while both worked for BBRI. ) How did these people help/hurt the company during their tenure by making the right/wrong decisions.

Did you see the recent article (June 2019) in Food & Drink? According to the article, Crawford was involved in the leveraged buyout of the company from Liggett and had helped turned the company around. If additional sources can be found, this info needs to be added.

I still think you should should write that historical picture book about the rise and slow decline's of Bob Wian's burger empire (along with Wian's biography and also Roy Roger's Roast Beef) since you have accumulated quite a few reliable sources to write one. Who knows, you might get enough funding via Kickstarter or Indiegogo to rent a classic muscle car to visit all five Bob's and video interview relatives of the key people involved with Wian. That would a fun few days of summer.

Did you hear that the new Big Boy franchise is going to open soon in Thailand? The Thai website refer to you (and other editors) as the "Wiki Lords" for your contributions WP contributions and they misquote the articles by confusing Bob's with BBRI. Did you know that there was a previous franchise in Bangkok that was active during the late 1990s and early 2000s that involved an Australian expatriate living in the U.S. and a Thai arms dealer? According to a April 12, 2000 article in the Wall Street Journal, the first franchise "began in a Las Vegas nightclub with a Thai arms dealer and an offer too good to refuse. Mr. Smythe, a 53-year-old Australian infomercial king who was living in Malibu, Calif., got a call one night in 1995 from his Thai brother-in- law. He asked Mr. Smythe to meet him and a "businessman friend" in Las Vegas..." If you can, you need to get a clipping of this article.

The Bob's article needs a section discussing the Bob's franchise during Wian era in Tuscon and Phoenix that were operated by former employees of the Glendale locations and can be supported by the existing clippings. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 23:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Just noticed that the current description of Zensho/Big Boy Japan relationship with BBRI might be incorrect in light of Elias Bros'. bankruptcy filing since U.S. Bankruptcy court rulings are not neccessarily valid outside of the U.S. (unless the buyer of the failed company is willing to file a new company registration papers (and pay the associated fees) in the foreign company in question). Just assuming that Zensho is still making franchise payments could be consider Original Research (especially since the BBRI website does not mention any location outside of Michigan, Ohio, California, or North Dakota). Look what happened to Radioshack. The brand is now split between four different companies since the former non-U.S. franchisees found that they could buy the brand outright for a small one time fee. The El Pollo Loco brand is now split between three companies since a court in the Philippines had ruled that the Filipino franchise now owned the brand within the Philippines and not the U.S. company since the U.S. parent company had changed owners a number of times since the original franchise agreement was signed.

BTW, have you seen the YouTube video about Big Boy Japan (, , ) or Bob's (, , )? -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 23:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Found some historic menus and photos at the Los Angeles Public Library.

• Bob's (Marriott) 1969 Menu
• Frisch's 1968 Menu
• 1954 photo
• 2007 Bob's Menu
• 1994 Bob's Menu
• 1969 Bob's Menu

There are more stuff at the LAPL, such as menu mock-ups for Bob's and Shoney's. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:16, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

@68.50.32.85: You may be right about the CEOs of Elias and BBRI, and there has certainly been drama between Michaels and Liggett. We're getting to (or past) the point of needing to split the Big Boy article, at least by Wikipedia standards (which I've been resisting). Any ideas?

I didn't see the Food & Drink article and thanks for passing it along. This is all I have seen, excepting business filings with several states showing a new owner (person), whom I don't remember offhand. Emailing the editors of the Free Press and Crain's didn't prompt an article.

My ex says likewise that I should do some Big Boy book, though I am probably more limited to articles, and too far from So. Cal. I've been collecting photos online, largely from eBay Big Boy items. High resolution images of a 1956 Bob's menu and first comic book are here: https://animationresources.org/category/big-boy/ (Click to enlarge images at bottom of page.)

A number of historic Bob's images collected by the Riverside Drive, Burbank store, is here. (Many are marked "Bruce B. Hermann Collection"): https://www.pinterest.com/bobsbigboy/ (follow items at bottom of page)

Thank you very much for the LAPL images and lead. I will explore it more presently but it looks good!

The WSJ article was reference here: https://books.google.com/books?id=HqUZ-aeWENIC&pg=PA359

Which, if you want to print it, is here: https://books.google.com/books/content?id=HqUZ-aeWENIC&pg=PA359&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U30EcvZ-2n-EBg8uNGVHW6tbvvGGw&w=1280

I tried to mention the Arizona stores opened through the employee franchise program in the Bob's Big Boy article. Perhaps that could be expanded. Someone made an issue of JB's buying those stores. In that regard, when JB's received additional territory from Marriott, units in those states used the Bob's name. I would like to find how many existed. It may be that most Bob's existed in 1988 when JB's dropped out of the Big Boy system.

I should try to contact Big Boy Japan, as we talked about before, and they might be able to provide press articles or press releases. I would assert WP:IAR if we're are simply clarifying the wording of an existing statement, but seek reliable sources for anything beyond that.

My newspaperarchive.com access expired but newspapers.com continues but neither include the WSJ. I might be able to do it through my local library; if so it must be accessed on site.

I have never considered the effects of a US bankruptcy on foreign licensure. Are there currently Big Boys operating in foreign countries other than Japan? — βox73 (৳alk) 02:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

@68.50.32.85: Update, Crain's Detroit Business just published "Big Boy looks to bounce back under new ownership" https://www.crainsdetroit.com/restaurants/big-boy-looks-bounce-back-under-new-ownership — βox73 (৳alk) 02:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

What a timely article! It look like Crawford is really turning the company around and it might survive and possibly grow. Yet I still don't know how they are going to complete with companies like Chipotle Mexican Grill, Blaze Pizza, Five Guys, or even In-N-Out Burger. Looks like my suspicions about Big Boy Japan being independent is correct. Just need to find how this was actually accomplished.

Maybe its time for you to submit your questions to Crawford since he (or his staff) might be willing to answer you. Maybe you could get them to release some photos under CCL.

The 2000 WSJ article is a great journalistic piece. Many textbooks on international business have cited this article. The article describes how one of Elias brothers visiting Bangkok telling the gullible Thais franchise that the business should be an instant gold mine, but was totally the opposite, which the article went into detail. The locals thought the big by statue was a strange American deity, so they would leave incense and other offerings in front of the statue.

LAPL is a great resource for old menus and photos. Just be aware that they are in the process of changing their server database from dbase1 to tessa, so things get broken from time to time. Not sure when thy will finally finish since it has been going on for at least the past five years. NYPL is another great resource but I can seem to gt their search engine to work properly and not sure if they have any Big Boy menus especially since there were not franchises, that I know of, in NYC.

Another great resource for Bob's pictures is Calisphere (https://calisphere.org/), which is sponsored by the University of California. They have a 1965 picture of inside the Bob's manufacturing commissary kitchen. Would that be beyond copyright? It can be viewed at either https://calisphere.org/item/ark:/21198/zz0002v2c1/ or https://dl.library.ucla.edu/islandora/object/edu.ucla.library.specialCollections.latimes%3A1591

More replies later, especially about WP article reorganization and how to split the articles. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 04:03, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

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Thought you might be interested in this article from the Lynchburg paper showing the pre-Lendy's Adler's Big Boy sign/font.

https://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/history/from-the-archives-nostalgia-on-the-menu/collection_e3e4487a-c41e-5a5d-8632-84579039376d.html#1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.205.18.53 (talk) 19:31, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

@50.205.18.53: I have seen and cited that article/photo but thank you all the same. If you see any other material please let me know! — βox73 (৳alk) 00:25, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Box73: It has been almost a year since we discuss about the possibility of you publishing a Big Boy book based upon the work that you have personally contributed on Big Boy Restaurants, Bob's Big Boy, Bob Wian, Frisch's, Eat'n Park, JB's Restaurants, and Johnie's Broiler. Once the pandemic dies down, go start a Kickstarter campaign to fund a photographic and/or YouTube safari trip to visit all the Bob's in California and interview many of the key people before they die off via a rented convertible.

The reason I mention this now is that I just noticed a burger book that came out recently by Sef Gonzalez (ISBN 9781633539631). Looking at certain phrases used in the book via GoogleBooks, Gonzalez appears to have borrowed very liberally from Wikipedia. How much of your work do you think he might have incorporated into his book? He has receive a lot of interesting quotes on Barnes & Noble and Amazon.

Have you been monitoring the daily page views for Bob's_Big_Boy or Big Boy Restaurants? In the hundreds, with spikes in the thousands, per day. Very respectable when compared to similar sized companies. Better than Blaze Pizza, but nowhere near as large as that as Burger King or Wendy's.

If you do things right to produce a good book, you might be able to get a free trip to visit Michigan, Ohio, California, North Dakota, and possible Japan.

You have done too much work, so far, to have others benefit from your labor of love. You appear to have also added a lot of new info since last year.

-- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:49, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

@Box73: Hey, yeah, write a book! What else do you have to do these days :-). (I was just glancing at Talk:Harris Isbell and really appreciating our discussion). Finney1234 (talk) 20:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

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