User talk:Masong225

Points to consider regarding Masong225's advocacies.

Recently, I posed the question to Masong225, "Have you ever had a direct personal experience with the American Conservatory of Music?" I asked this question because of certain peculiarities in the factual record. For example, it appears that this person would have us believe that the programs at the American Conservatory of Music are substandard. Remember, that Wikipedia Administrators have determined that Masong225 has utilized multiple Wikipedia User Accounts to spread his/her point of view. It is against Wikipedia policy to engage in a POV violation. Nevertheless, the same person using Masong225 used Shelly099 to make the statement that:

• "Diploma mills fall into two categories: 1. One where "a student" just bought the degree without doing any work 2. The other where "a student" did some educational work, which turned out to be far below the normal college experience...In this case, American Conservatory of Music in the State of Indiana falls into the latter category." Source: [link to deprecated talk page entry]

BUT, how does this individual make the above unsubstantiated statement without the benefit of direct experience. Academic scrutiny does not permit the acceptance of this unqualified statement unless the person making the statement can provide direct testimony about the given assertion. Masong225's non-answer to my question is a loud answer that he/she does not have any direct experience with the American Conservatory of Music. Even if we, for the sake of argument, take the above statement as a valid inquiry for purposes of analysis, we can see that the list of notable graduates provided by the Conservatory's Registrar demonstrates that the Conservatory applies an acceptable standard upon its students. Anthony Williams is an eminently qualified organ soloist who would never associate with a "diploma mill". As a student, he studied with Paul Jordan at the American Conservatory of Music where he received his DMA.^[1] It is equally true with the other listed graduates. Each of them makes a significant contribution to the field of music through the fruits of their studies at the Conservatory. "Diploma mill" graduates do not have the ability to function as orchestral/choral directors, organists, instrumentalists, or professors at other regionally accredited universities and colleges. Graduates of the Conservatory, by the evidence of its output, have the ability to function as orchestral/choral directors, organists, instrumentalists, or professors at other regionally accredited universities and colleges. Interestingly, the Conservatory has achieved this distinction in the recent past. (as it has done in the distant past).

The other thing which appears to be of concern is that Shelly099 picks on one of the Conservatory's professors (at random) and tells us that the professor lacks credentials to teach at the doctoral level. The person in question is "Curtis Robinson", who is on the faculty list for Jazz Guitar. Shelly099 makes the following statement about this professor:

• "Their doctorate course instructors are unsigned local musicians. Unsigned local guitar player, Curtis Robinson is one of their bogus doctor for their doctorate course. This instructor calls himself as "doctor" without holding any Ph.D and without writing any thesis for academic journals" Source: [link to deprecated talk page entry]

It can be legitimately questioned how Shelly099 would have any direct knowledge that "This instructor calls himself as "doctor without holding any Ph.D and without writing any thesis for academic journals."". The NASM Handbook has standards for faculty who teach at the doctoral level.^[2] The standards are that an instructor may provide instruction at the doctoral level even if such instructor does not possess the same academic credentials as the program level being delivered as long as such instructor is qualified by experience and equivalent qualifications. This permits an accredited music faculty to employ a qualified instructor in its graduate programs who does not possess any academic or performance degree whatsoever, but who has abundance of qualifications in his/her field, such as Jascha Heifetz, for example, who did not possess a college degree, much less a Bachelor of Music degree. Yet, this violin virtuosso was welcomed onto the faculty of two different NASM accredited universities. Is there any legitimate reason to prevent graduate students of a music unit the privilege of studying with a virtuoso musician merely because such instructor does not have a degree? Does this mindset advance music education? The NASM Council on Accreditation has answered in the negative through its accreditation policies. I invite the Wikipedia community to sample Curtis Robinson's performances. They are widely available on youtube.com Go ahead and search for "Curtis Robinson Jazz Guitar" and see for yourself. Of course, not all Wikipedians are qualified to make such a judgment, but some are on here who have the requisite qualifications and standing to make such an analysis provided there is no conflict of interest exhibited in the process. Let us inquire.

I wonder what the true story is with Masong225. I wonder if Masong225 is expressing sour grapes over a failure to meet the standards of the American Conservatory of Music as a student, or perhaps he/she has a particular agenda to utilize this forum to violate NASM standards of ethics regarding competition.^[3] I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions, because it is not mine to speculate. It is evident that there is an intense hatred exhibited by this individual against the Conservatory. This kind of hatred does not come out of nowhere. Why did he/she pick Curtis Robinson as a scapegoat? Is Curtis Robinson his/her former professor?

Shelly099 then made this unverifiable statement:

• "...federal accreditation ... which is viewed as proof of quality and high standard in education." Source: User:Shelly099/Diploma mill

Accreditation of higher education institutions in the United States is not mandatory. The Conservatory, by its choice, has chosen not to hold national or regional accreditation products offered by such non-governmental associations. Instead, the Conservatory relies on its commitment to the church canons of the Greek Orthodox Church to maintain its standards at the highest possible level. "One of the reasons that institutions seek accreditation is so that their students are eligible to receive federal student aid or other federal benefits...postsecondary educational institutions and programs that elect not to seek accreditation but nevertheless may provide a quality postsecondary education..." ^[4] The Conservatory does not believe that a student should incur educational debt, nor does it participate in Federal or State funding programs. Because the Conservatory is an ecclesiastical organization, its activities are overseen by the Orthodox Church of Belize and in turn by the Metropolitan in charge of that church's operations. I think this may afford the student a most comforting atmosphere in which to grow musically, spiritually, and emotionally into artistic maturity. Transfer of credit and acceptance of degrees is always at the discretion of the receiving institution. "Accreditation by the Association carries with it no obligation to accept, without examination, music credits from other member schools.^[5] This means that credits do not automatically transfer between say Yale and Harvard. Each Dean or prospective employer must assess the qualifications, or lack thereof, of the applicant student or employee, no matter the origin of their earned educational credentials.

Masong225's comments that the FBI is pursuing the Conservatory's Chairman Emeritus Richard Schulze is indeed singular! Have any of us heard of the FBI pursuing a deceased man?^[6] Such sensationalism could be deemed a further violation of Wikipedia policy. If the remaining Schulze's are so infamous, why hasn't there been a series of student complaints in the files of the Indiana law enforcement? The answer is that there have been none to report that this editor can locate. Also, if Schulze was the con man that the newspaper articles say he was, then were there a series of investor suits against Richard Schulze and his family? I call upon Masong225 to provide just one student complaint against the Conservatory by one of its students the disposition of which was adverse to the Conservatory. I also call upon Masong225 to provide just one investor complaint in any civil court against the Schulze's the disposition of which was adverse to any member of the Schulze family. This is not expressing doubt. This is expressing my curiosity. Masong225 seems to be able to conjure up all kinds of new items of inquiry, but so far, each of them have led nowhere towards the conclusions he/she is advocating. Park0977 (talk) 04:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Notes

Park0977 (talk) 04:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Masong225

Park0997 keep talking non-sense. Where is your logical basis to say "internationally accredited"???? Your name "Part0977" is reported to FBI Internet Crime officers. If you want, keep saying so.

Your answer is lengthy and senseless. I don't see any point. Can you find any article resource (from Indiana newspaper) to support your position?

Just read the following article. These are more artciles of ACM's fraud cases. This is just 1 of them. I quoted:

CONTROVERSIAL SCHOOL NOW A BIBLE COLLEGE - CONSERVATORY MOVES CLASSES TO HAMMOND

Chicago Tribune-October 17, 1999 Author: Cindy Schreuder and Patrice Jones, Tribune Staff Writers.

The American Conservatory of Music, ordered this year by Illinois courts to stop offering bogus college degrees, has inched over the state line into Hammond in an apparent effort to set up shop as a Bible college.

The troubled school has been in and out of Illinois courts for years. Its re-emergence in a new incarnation underscores the difficulties states have in regulating institutions of higher education, especially at a time when they are proliferating because of Internet degrees and other contemporary trends.

Earlier this year, the last judge to rule on the matter ordered the Illinois attorney general's office to pursue criminal contempt charges against the family who runs the school.

Yet still using the century-old name of a once-renowned music school, the conservatory now claims ties to the "Eastern Orthodox Church, in general, and more specifically of the monastic community of the Archangel Michael" in the Central American country of Belize, according to documents filed in Indiana.

Indiana does not accredit Bible colleges, which can award religiously oriented degrees without state oversight.

It is unclear whether any of the school's former students in Chicago, some of whom paid $22,000 in tuition and fees for what proved to be worthless degrees, are attending in Indiana. The conservatory's Loop office, at 36 S. Wabash Ave., remains open, but officials there have said they are not offering instruction for college credit.

If the conservatory qualifies as a Bible college, Indiana will have to leave the school alone or risk opening a wider issue that lawmakers are reluctant to tackle.

"I'm not going to be the one to say to the General Assembly of Indiana that we should regulate Bible colleges," said Phillip Roush, commissioner of Indiana's Commission on Proprietary Education. "I'd be run out of town."

Whatever the outcome, the situation highlights the tremendous difficulty state regulators face in closing troubled schools. Each state has its own rules and regulatory structure, and schools sometimes avoid problems in one state by opening up elsewhere.

Illinois officials, who thought they had finally succeeded in closing the private music school in May when a Cook County Circuit Court judge ordered the locks on the conservatory's doors changed, said they were exasperated with the school's latest tactic. Though precise numbers are elusive, scores of worthless degrees have been awarded since 1992, primarily to foreign students.

"I would have to advise any student who asks me whether they should attend that institution to seriously consider any other option," said Marcia Langsjoen, staff counsel for academic affairs at the Illinois State Board of Higher Education.

Indiana education officials are investigating the school's operations there.

"If you're a Bible college, you'll operate as a Bible college," said Roush. "Don't come in as a back door to what's going on in Illinois."

But defining a Bible college can be tricky.

"We don't say how much of the curriculum must be in religious areas," explained Roush, "but certainly a portion of it must be."

A recent conservatory catalog boasts a cornucopia of courses, from English, French and Western civilization to jazz, sacred music and Christian Ethics. Courses are taught every other Thursday in St. Demetrios Greek Orthodox Church in Hammond. The number of students currently enrolled at the school is unclear, but it may be as few as 15.

The conservatory also has incorporated in Hawaii--a haven for diploma mills because the state has virtually no laws governing higher education--and in Nevada.

Conservatory officials have told Indiana regulators that they also have an accounting office in Colorado.

The original American Conservatory of Music, founded in Chicago in 1886, produced Pulitzer Prize winners and garnered international recognition. But it went bankrupt in the early 1990s. At that point, in stepped Richard and Theodora Schulze, a husband-and-wife team who had studied at the conservatory in the 1940s but never graduated.

Richard Schulze has had prior legal trouble. In 1995, he was convicted in the fraudulent sale of securities in Florida, ordered to pay $350,000 in restitution and given 20 years' probation.

Along with their son, Otto, they ran a music school that they called the American Conservatory of Music.

The Schulzes said they were continuing the old school and did not need state approval. But Illinois education officials said that they really had opened a new school that had to be reviewed and approved before degrees could be awarded. That stance led to the legal action in Illinois.

Asked to comment on the conservatory's evolving operation, Theodora Schulze declined. She was contacted in the Chicago office the school previously had occupied, and she answered the telephone, "Conservatory."

Otto Schulze issued a brief statement that read: "An Indiana corporation has been organized under the name American Conservatory of Music. The Indiana corporation is in dialogue with the higher education authorities in Indiana and is working with them to ensure compliance with Indiana law."

But more details emerged in a July 23 memo to "all faculty, staff, students and friends of the conservatory." In that note, Theodora Schulze wrote that the "headquarters campus" had been relocated to Hammond, described as a "nearby suburb of Chicago."

"We have completed our legal research, which indicates that we are eligible to operate a postsecondary degree-granting institution in Indiana," she wrote.

"At the time we meet with you in Indiana, we may safely refer to ourselves as the American Conservatory of Music," Schulze continued. "That is because Illinois loses its jurisdiction at the border and can no longer interfere with us while we are in the state of Indiana.

"Thank you for your support during this time of challenge," she concluded.

The Schulzes' conservatory has targeted for enrollment foreign students, particularly those from Asia, who are issued special visas to attend school in this country.

Despite all the court action against the conservatory, the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service--much to the surprise of the Illinois attorney general's office--had never revoked the school's permission to award student visas.

But that may soon change.

In July, after Illinois courts had ordered the school to close, the Schulzes' conservatory requested additional foreign student visa applications from the INS, said Gail Montenegro, an agency spokeswoman.

Conservatory officials asked that the forms be sent to 36 S. Wabash, which differed from the Chicago address INS had on file for the conservatory. INS officials now say they are looking into revoking the conservatory's permission to award student visas, though that action has not yet been taken. But even without official revocation, no new visas can be awarded without additional application forms.

Roush, the Indiana commissioner, said he was surprised that the conservatory had never lost its power to grant student visas. But he added that the story has taken many surprising twists.

"It's a saga that continues," Roush said, "and there will be more episodes, I believe."

Indeed, an Alabama woman, Susanne Gilmer Stibolt, recently submitted a proposal to Illinois officials to open a degree-granting school to be called the Chicago Conservatory of Music. That name is similar to one of another defunct institution, the Chicago Conservatory College, which operated from 1857 to 1981.

The proposed Chicago Conservatory of Music would be staffed with musicians who taught at the old American Conservatory of Music. But Stibolt said her proposed institution would be distinct from the Schulzes' school.

"I have nothing to do with them, absolutely nothing to do with them," she said.

"It's a new conservatory in a great city, and it would give us the opportunity to work with students from around the world," said Stibolt, the president-designate of the proposed school.

Langsjoen of the State Board of Higher Education said officials are seriously considering the application. But she noted that few new schools are approved.

Edition: CHICAGOLAND FINAL Section: METRO CHICAGO Page: 1

Index Terms: ILLINOIS

CLOSING

COLLEGE

MUSIC

CHICAGO

FRAUD

CHANGE

OPENING RELIGION

INDIANA Record Number: CTR9910170208 Copyright 1999, Chicago Tribune

Masong225 09:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Regarding where I found the reference for its international accreditation...THAT'S CITED IN MY VERSION OF THE EDIT. Oh, BTW you would not find the American Conservatory of Music in the list of United States-domestically accredited institutions published by the U.S. Department of Education because the Conservatory does not wish to participate in the Federal Title IV Student aid program and it is not a United States-domestic educational institution. All your garbage about Schulze is off-point because the man is dead. Of course, you missed that point on purpose and you are spreading tendentious edits everywhere you can in violation of Wikipedia policy. Instead of being a collaborator with the objective of arriving at the truthful picture of the Conservatory, you appear to have a hateful agenda to spread your point of view that is completely out of line with academic standards. For example you had denied that the Conservatory is a charter founder of NASM without citing to any verifiable sources to back up your point. Then, you learned to your shock that my research and cite to the factual history of NASM verifies that the Conservatory is indeed one of the charter founders of NASM. You also don't seem to understand that the Conservatory is authorized under the Indiana Code as an ecclesiastic university. Therefore, COPE does not accredit them. COPE accredits proprietary education institutions. The Conservatory is regulated by the Greek Orthodox Church in accordance with the canons of that religious organization.

You have not answered any of the points I brought up above. I must assume you are a competitor of the American Conservatory of Music who seeks to drag it through the mud in violation of NASM standards of ethical conduct. It does not help matters that you threatened me in this forum. Your sock-puppeting, and your bias disqualify you in my opinion. Prove me wrong. I would like to work with you and assume you are working on Wikipedia in good faith. Masong225, you can help make that happen. Park0977 (talk) 15:40, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Still absurd.....

Theodora, and their son Otto are Schulze family. I didn't write "Richard" Schulze. They were related to Florida and Nevada cases. These stupid figures are still running the sham school.

Masong225 20:20, 17 December 2009 (UTC)