User talk:Quantplinus

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@Sir Sputnik

According to my revert of Songkran and your mentioned about edit war to me.

The reason I have reverted change(s) made by User Pierrevang3 who tried to spread false information that Songkran is a Khmer word which is not true. I have some academic resources to let you know. The term Songkran is Thai word as the following proofs,

• In Google Book and search with "Songkran is a Thai word" AND "The term Songkran is a Thai word" (included Quotation marks for exact result).

And also compare search result of "Songkran is a Khmer word" and check the Phonetic notation topic in Talk:Songkran

• Doctoral Dissertation p. 334 said:- "The term Songkran is a Thai word meaning to move".
• Songkran in Oxford English Dictionary
• The term "Songkrant" (TH: สงกรานต์) in Thai language was romanized (IPA) as "songkran" in accordance with Royal Thai General System of Transcription. see Wiktionary.

I hope that you are understand the situation and proceeding under the rule Wikipedia:Don't lie to the article, and would you please remove edit war warning on my talk page if my arguments are true and correct. Thank you. Quantplinus (talk) 03:47, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

This is a content dispute. Excessive reverting in that context is completely unacceptable. You are expected to resolve your differences with other editors through discussion, and to exercise restraint until such discussions have reached their conclusion. Continue as you have been once the page protection expires and you will quickly find yourself blocked. Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Dance_in_Thailand. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. 『π』BalaM314〘talk〙 16:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

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Hello, I've seen your active contribution to the article Steamed curry and came across your discussion in the talk page about the word origin. Also, I noticed your recent updates mentioned Amok as a derivative from Thai Hor Mok, which is in fact a pretty accurate account according to my own research. However, citing wiktionary for reference might not substain your argument, as other user here once informed me about it being considered as an unreliable source.

That said, I've been collected numerous findings from both academic research paper and various secondary resources regarding this topic as well as others yet without my own wikipedia account, I couldn't make any edit to this protected page though in the future I'm planning to make once as soon as some of my own research works truly approach a proper conclusive findings. So, as a Khmer-language speaker who is working and living in cambodia and had strolled through online and offline sources in various language including of course, in Khmer language, I would like to provide you sources that clearly tackles the arguments on Amok etymology and believe them to be extremely helpful at clearing certain doubts.

1. Cambodian English Dictionary. Volume II by Headley, Richard K. Publication: 1977 (Full Online View is available)

Page 1280: ហហ្មុក /haa mok/ n. a type of food consisting of chopped meat, chicken, or fish mixed with spices and coconut juice placed in leaves and steamed. (T. hɔɔmòg.)

The entry appears in the section of Khmer Alphabeth - ហ [hɑː] (begins at page 1276), also the khmer counterpart for Thai ห หีบ (ho hip). and Readers have to recognize that T. hɔɔmòg refers to “etymology” as T is an abbreviation for Thai language, meaning the Thai word hɔɔmòg​ (ห่อหมก) is the source for Cambodian Haa Mok. The same thing is applied to all loan words in the dictionary whether of other foreign origina such as Sanskrit (S.), Pali (Pa.), Vietnamese (Vn.), Chinese (Chin.)..etc

2. SEAlang Library Khmer Dictionary Resources:

Let’s start with a brief background of this online resource: These resources are primarily based on the two very different editions of the Cambodian-English Dictionary: Cambodian-English Dictionary by Robert K. Headley, Kylin Chhor, Lam Kheng Lim, Lim Hak Kheang, and Chen Chun (1977, Catholic University Press), and Cambodian-English Dictionary by Robert K. Headley, Rath Chim, and Ok Soeum (1997, Dunwoody Press, ISBN 0-931745-78-0). Searches in Khmer orthography will also return entries from the Chuon Nath Khmer Dictionary (1966, Buddhist Institute, Phnom Penh). This classic work represents the high point of pre-war Cambodian lexicography.

You probably know how to use this online dictionary, But I still feel the need to offer an instruction: Once you enter the website, you'll see the word Search on the left and below is a search box (for Khmer) where you just copy paste this khmer text ហហ្មុក (/hɑ.ˈmok/), at which the search result will pop up as following:

• ហហ្មុក haa mok [headley77] In a type of food consisting of chopped meat, chicken, or fish mixed with spices and coconut juice placed in leaves and steamed. ETY:Thai: hɔɔmòg
• ហហ្មុក hɑɑ mok [headley97] In kind of food consisting of chopped meat, chicken, or fish mixed with spices and coconut milk, placed in banana leaf dishes and steamed . Variant:អាហ្មុក
• ហហ្មុក ន. ( ស. ហ្ច់ហ្មក អ. ថ. ហ-​ហ្មុក “ខ្ចប់​-​កប់”) ឈ្មោះ​ម្ហូប​មួយ​ប្រភេទ​ធ្វើ​ដោយ​ត្រី​ស្រស់​ផ្សំ​គ្រឿង​មាន​កាពិបុក​និង​ខ្ចិះ​ដូង​ជា​ដើម ខ្ចប់​ចំហុយ : ហហ្មុក​ត្រី​រ៉ស់, ហហ្មុក​ត្រី​អណ្តែង​ដាក់​ស្លឹក​ញ (គួរ​កុំ​ច្រឡំ​ហៅ អាម៉ុក ព្រោះ​ជា​សម្តី​ពុំ​គួរ​សោះ​ឡើយ) ។ Pronuncation: ហ៏-​ហ៉្មុក ETY:ស.

The result is consisted of entries defining the same term from three different dictionaries as already known: Headley 1977 & 1997 edition and Chuon Nath Dictionary 1966 edition. The entry from Headley 1977 and information at point (1) are one and the same , excepted here we see the word Thai is fully spelled at denoting the etymology. On the other hand, the entry from headley97 mentions no etymological information, instead includes a note for Variant: អាហ្មុក (aamok). On the absence of etymological information in Robert K.Headley Cambodian-English Dictionary 1997 Edition, SEAlang resource had explained as following: It has less etymological information than the '77 edition, but include far more usage (e.g. social level) tagging, and more than two thousand example sentences. The third entry in the result is taken from Chuon Nath Dicitonary 1966 Dictionary, and is in Khmer text, which I will provide the translation and explain in the next point. By the way, if you choose to look up the word អាហ្មុក (aamok) instead, no result will appear, and I believe the site ensures the term is just a non-standard rendition of an official ហហ្មុក /haa mok/, and isn’t entitled for a stand-alone entry.

3. Khmer Dicitonary by Chuon Nath. Publication: 1967 - note: I don't know if you would be able to comprehend the source since everything is in Khmer language, but I choose to attached a link for an online copy.

Page 1151: ហហ្មុក ន. ( ស. ហ្ច់ហ្មក អ. ថ. ហ-​ហ្មុក “ខ្ចប់​-​កប់”) ឈ្មោះ​ម្ហូប​មួយ​ប្រភេទ​ធ្វើ​ដោយ​ត្រី​ស្រស់​ផ្សំ​គ្រឿង​មាន​កាពិបុក​និង​ខ្ចិះ​ដូង​ជា​ដើម ខ្ចប់​ចំហុយ : ហហ្មុក​ត្រី​រ៉ស់, ហហ្មុក​ត្រី​អណ្តែង​ដាក់​ស្លឹក​ញ (គួរ​កុំ​ច្រឡំ​ហៅ អាម៉ុក ព្រោះ​ជា​សម្តី​ពុំ​គួរ​សោះ​ឡើយ) ។

The entry appears on the section for Khmer Alphabeth - ហ [hɑː] (begins at page 1135), and Here is my English translation for the Khmer text: Haa Mok (Noun). (Siamese: Ho Mok, read as:Hoo-Mok Wrap-Bury)the name of a dish which is prepared from fresh fish and spice paste together with Pounded Shrimp Paste and Coconut Milk, then wrapped and Steamed. Example includes Haa Mok with Snakehead Fish, Haa mok with Catfish and Noni Leaves ( Please dont be confused to call the dish Amok because it is an improper term).

• note: the Khmer alphabeth: ស [sɑː] you see inside the round brackets, and I put in bold, is the khmer counterpart of Thai: ส เสือ (so suea), and here, is shorten for សៀម​​ /siəm/ (Siam, Siamese Language) Its inclusion in the entry is to remark the Siamese/Thai etymology origin for the khmer term. The dictionary did basically the same with other loan words from Sanskrit, Pali, Chinese, Laotian, French, Vietnamese..etc. Cambodian-English dictionary by Headley clearly sourced from Chuon Nath dictionary.

anyway, I need to share a few personal opinions in three parts: I. The remark that the word Amok considered as improper (in the sense of Khmer language) wasn’t all due to being a non-standard term. The Khmer word “ពុំគួរសម” also means vulgar and rude, because the sound AA in Amok is synonymous with the term អា /aa/, a derogatory in Khmer language. Here is a quick explaination of the latter from Headley77: អា /aa/ 1 pt (used preceding noun with a derogatory or very familiar meaning. It is commonly used in addressing close friends, persons regarded as inferiors, or young boys. It can also be used before the name of something with which one is annoyed.).

II. While people either local or foreigner alike happen to popularize the term Amok as the standard name for the dish​, Haa Mok is remained an official term which even the Khmer Dictionary 2022 by The Royal Academy of Cambodia (RAC), and an update from Chuon Nath dictionary 1967 edition, doesn't include Amok as a own separated entry, and maintain the same definition from Chuon Nath dictionary almost word to word. Many local articles and publications from many esteemed sources publications seldom used the word Amok to describe the dish, and on social media Cambodian academics have encourage the public to call the dish accordingly to its official and standard term in the Khmer dicitonary. This is for your information, though of course, only if such details will include in the Wikipedia article, first I need to seek secondary sources that speak of this circumstance and phenomenon to back up the claim because here is not the place for an original research.

3. The fact that I saw an opinion in the talk page dismissing information in Chuon Nath Dictionary as a personal opinion than an academic statement, make me want to create an article with ton of citations to prove the dictionary’s credibility as an academic source. I need to clarify that the dicitonary we are speaking of is officially titled “ Khmer dicitonary” but nowadays is commonly known as Chuon Nath's, since he was a Cambodian venerable figure and a household name. However, the dictionary wasn’t a one-man work, but came to fruition by a team of numerous Buddhist monks who were well versed and specialized in languages, and went through numerous peer reviews. Not to mentioned that works had been updated numerous times with its first edition in 1938 and the last edition in 1967, fully funded by the Royal house and published by The Buddhist Institute of Cambodia, therefore the amount of contribution and efforts on bringing the dictionary to life is never lesser than other dictionaries out there and hold a current reputation to the Cambodian-English Dictionary by Robert K.Headley which is now attached to one sole person despite having a whole team worked on it. That means information in Chuon Nath’s dictionary shall not be regarded as less academic or unreliable than for example, Oxford English Dicitonary or Merriam Webster Dictionary for a source to even counter certain opinions or argument in Wikipedia article. It's equally disheartening to learn that this local source in khmer language complied by a non-westerner academic are under-looked and undervalued when a mere-opinion from a western centric work is considered passable for reliability as academic source in compared. Maybe I mistake the user's meaning, but for now, it definitely feels quite disrespectful, and show the person's shortcoming at understanding the source before making such comment (I do take into an account of their language barrier) and to be honest, it even would anger a a number of academic and scholars who study Khmer Linguistic and do research in the field of local literature since Khmer Dictionary 1967 by Chuon Nath is always a principle linguistic source for the majority of Khmer Language students and scholars to rely on for their learning and research. Again, I'm also here to explain that one is on the right track for using the dictionary as a source for Khmer language, and if otherwise, I'm welcomed others to show and explain about their better alternative. There are numerous secondary sources in english out there I could gather to support my points, but I've been too busy to do it right now.

For the side note, the term Amok or Hamook in Khmer language never refer to a cooking process or steaming in banana leaf. Some western food writers may say otherwise, but all is done without linking to citation or acadmeic reference to back up their claim, and I personally believe it is the consequence of one's ignorance on the local culture and language. As elaborately explained in all my points above, the word has only one meaning and it is the name of the dish, and a loan word from Thai language.

Additionally, myself also have a few other sources in hands that discuss and handle the etymology origin of the word Amok & Hamok in a secondary argument, and they are reliable sources. Two are from the renowned research insitutions in Cambodia, which are headed by A group of cambodian well-respected Anthropologists and researchers. They also examined the origin of the dish in Cambodia, with its connection to Siam, today, Thailand. One is an offline source, a research book that is now out of print, and Even though I carefully read it, I have to retrieve it again from a community library in Phnom Penh in order to make note of its infomation as well as doing translation. (some parts also comes with english translation). I may have to share with you those information later as my indirect contribution to the article. And I’m apologize for my long unparaphrased sentence plus other spelling or grammar mistakes. My currrent inability to keep things short and simple is one factor that discourage me from pursuing a part-time task as a Wikipedia contributor, and have to wait until I can polish my english writing.

I hope all information above will be helpful. and feel free to reply back in case you need other research materials based on the account above.

Thanks. Have a nice day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.37.219.63 (talk) 17:22, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for your valuable feedback regarding the word amok. Initially, I considered not including the etymology of the word in the article to avoid any potential conflicts between Thais and Khmers. The previous content in the article was poorly written and difficult to understand. However, I now regret not including this content and would like to add it for the benefit of further research. Your research and sources are reliable and have helped clarify some of my doubts. I will incorporate your references and translations to enhance the quality of the article. I have found the Chuon Nath Dictionary to be the most trustworthy among Khmer dictionaries. However, another editor argued that the information in the dictionary is more of an opinion than an academic statement. Your statement is strong enough to refute such arguments. If you have any additional sources from research institutions on the etymology of the words amok and hamok, it would greatly aid my research.

After conducting research, I have found that the word amok or hamok is often used to refer to a specific type of food. However, I believe that amok is not an appropriate term for this dish. I am curious as to why Western authors tend to use amok instead of hamok, and I wonder if the use of amok instead of hamok is a way to differentiate between Thai and Khmer cuisine, possibly due to nationalism on both sides. Therefore, I am considering writing about hamok as the main focus and mentioning amok as a secondary point. However, I am unsure if other editors may have a different perspective on this matter. While there are limited sources for hamok or haamok, which refers to a food menu, the term amok is widely used. To strengthen the credibility of my writing, I will use your sources to support my argument.

Additionally, but off-topic, I have conducted some research on the origin of the word amok from Burmese and Shan academic sources. According to Sir James George Scott's Gazetteer of Upper Burma and the Shan State (1899:518) and Lowis' The Tribes of Burma (1919:39), the term amok refers to the Hsen-hsum or Hsem tribe, a Trans-Salween hill-folk. They speak the Mok language, which belongs to the Austroasiatic language family under the Angkuic group. However, as these sources are from Western perspectives, I am unable to find any historical information on the connection between the Amok tribe and the Khmer people. All I know is that both Khmer and Mok languages belong to the Austroasiatic language family. Thank you. Quantplinus (talk) 07:00, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ShalaylayPumpano AI-generated edits with fake citations. -- Xan747 (talk) 19:57, 22 October 2025 (UTC)