Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karategin Uzbeks

Karategin Uzbeks

Karategin Uzbeks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG, The article doesn't cites any sources and is possibly a WP:HOAX as there is no information about it anywhere to confirm if it even exists. Koshuri ^(グ) 11:34, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ethnic groups, Afghanistan, and Uzbekistan. Koshuri ^(グ) 11:34, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Thanks brother, yes historically Karategin was inhabited by Tajiks and Kyrgyzes even in sources that were mentioned in article it is written byt no mention of Uzbeks Amir TJK (talk) 16:24, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

• Keep - I'm slightly confused why you say the article doesn't cite any sources. It does lack inline, but for that throwing Template:No footnotes on it for a bit might be the better course of action. Unless someone can access the sources it does list and has evidence that they are unreliable, I see no reason to assume they are. Still, I can understand some suspicion about it, and would love to hear from @Фанис Шарбеков: about where they got their sources. - Ike Lek (talk) 06:42, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

  You're making a WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES argument, If you think there are sources which provides WP:NOTABILITY to the subject then find and cite them here.

  I'm slightly confused why you say the article doesn't cite any sources. – I said it cause there is literally no citation present in the article, I don't see any reason to be confused here. I have already checked Karategin Uzbeks#Sources, The section only mentions names of some sources, However there no mention of any ethnic group called Karategin Uzbeks. Koshuri ^(グ) 13:49, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

  I'm not saying there are for sure sources, I'm saying there are listed sources in the article, even if they aren't properly cited. I would want to hear about them before I decided they weren't legit. Ike Lek (talk) 18:30, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

  There's no mention of Karategin Uzbeks in them either. I checked them before starting the AfD. Koshuri ^(グ) 07:01, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  Huh, odd. There seems to be some mention of them here:

  • https://jamestown.org/program/will-tajikistans-karategin-valley-again-become-a-militant-stronghold/, granted it seems to be about a different group than the one the article claims exists.
  • https://ijmmu.com/index.php/ijmmu/article/view/2550 - I would love if someone could track down the sources this cites.
  • https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344736287_Ethnic_Composition_Of_The_Population_Of_Uzbek_Khanates - full text is available free if you look around a bit.

  There are clearly a significant number of Uzbeks in the Kabul area; however it is unclear if they match description given for this particular ethnic subgroup. If it does turn out to be a hoax, the these commons files need to be re-evaluated:

  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karategin_Uzbek,_1924,_Kabul,_Afghanistan_(b).png
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Uzbek_Karategin_phenotype_of_Balkh,_Bactria_Afghanistan.jpg

  I can understand some suspicion; I definitely have some, but it does seem like the group is more likely than not to actually exist. Ike Lek (talk) 07:41, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  These sources only talk about other uzbek ethnicities, The first one does mentions a few lines about Uzbek settlement in Karategin however do not mention them as a ethnic group and has no WP:SIGCOV either; February 1999 terrorist attacks in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, frightened the Uzbekistani authorities into indiscriminately arresting religious dissenters. Consequently, emigration from Uzbekistan to Tajikistan became a mass movement, with whole families fleeing and resettling in the Karategin Valley. Military camps also sprang up alongside civilian Uzbek settlements in the Karategin. Koshuri ^(グ) 12:25, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  The first article is not about the ethnic group, but the other two contain mentions of the Dormon Uzbeks. Ike Lek (talk) 16:27, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  Do they have WP:SIGCOV? Koshuri ^(グ) 18:21, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  The last one might, but definitely not on its own. I'm first just trying to verify that they exist and aren't a hoax before I invest the time to demonstrate notability. I'm not super attached to the article. I'm just trying to make sure it gets a fair defence, so we aren't erasing the existence of an ethnic group from the English internet if they are real. - Ike Lek (talk) 18:56, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

  There have never been Durman (Dormon) Uzbeks in Karategin. The Durman Uzbeks traditionally lived in the Gissar Mountains, while Karategin was inhabited exclusively by Tajiks and Kyrgyz. None of the sources I consulted indicate that Uzbeks ever lived in Karategin. The picture depict Tajiks from Karategin living in Kabul, as the original source identifies them as Tajiks. You also mentioned Uzbeks in Kabul, which is true — but they are not Durman or Karategini Uzbeks. In fact, there are many different Uzbek tribes and groups in Afghanistan and Kabul, not only Durman.

  Rednaksiii (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:18, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Svartner (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist; we need more opinions on outcomes here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 23:01, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.