Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Scott Carpenter
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article promoted by Gog the Mild (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 20:20, 18 February 2025 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list
Scott Carpenter
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Scott Carpenter (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
I am nominating this article for A-Class review as the third in the series on the Mercury Seven astronauts after the more famous Alan Shepard and John Glenn. He is not nearly as famous as those two, although his name was a household word for a time. He only flew in space once, on a single Mercury mission, but I think he was a pretty interesting guy. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:40, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Support by Nick-D
I'd like to offer the following comments:
- The first para of the lead is excellent
- I'd suggest adding material to the lead on what Carpenter did with the rest of his life after 1969
- " but in view of his responsibilities as a husband and father," - it hasn't previously been stated that he had children. I'd suggest adding this to the para on his marriage
- Can anything be said about the shift in Carpenter's mindset that led him to go from wanting to fly relatively safe aircraft to becoming a test pilot?
Not to mention becoming at astronaut. The article makes it clear that he he was nominated rather than lobbying for it, and I have added that Rene thought he should have pursued fighter pilot training. I felt this was odd; but her actions when Carpenter was selected for astronaut training support this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:50, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
- The "Mercury-Atlas 7" section would benefit from sub-sections
- "The next mission was a second manned orbital flight " - wasn't this Mercury-Redstone 4?
- " A P2V Neptune " - the aircraft is over-linked here
- "After failing to regain mobility in his arm" - was this due to the injury from the motorcycle accident?
Nick-D (talk) 04:26, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
Support Those changes look good, and I'm happy to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 09:12, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
Image review
- File:Scott Carpenter in 1965.jpg - based on the source, how do we know this is a NASA work? It looks like it is, given the press-release-y nature of the photo, but we ought to have some firmer evidence for FAC.
- Looks like a Rolex ad to me. We can switch back to File:MalcolmScottCarpenter.jpg, which used to be on the page
- File:P2V-5 Neptunes of VP-6 at NAS Kodiak 1954.jpg - dead source link
- Lost - no archive available. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:09, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Removed. Sigh. Added File:Lockheed P2V-7 Neptune in flight near NAS Patuxent River in 1954.jpg instead. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:31, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Lost - no archive available. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:09, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- File:Original 7 Astronauts in Spacesuits - GPN-2000-001293.jpg - dead link
- It is still there, but switched to File:The Mercury 7 (15258556433).jpg from
- File:Carpenter aurora 7.jpg - dead link (though I have to say I like NASA's 404 page!)
- File:Scott Carpenter funeral 140102-F-IQ437-130.jpg - dead link
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The joys of link rot, eh? Parsecboy (talk) 15:33, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- It's really sad. What I would really like to use is this Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:09, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Ooh! found it on Commons! Added to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:31, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Parsecboy, any further comments to come on this image review? If not, is the review a pass or a fail? Matarisvan (talk) 13:11, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Ooh! found it on Commons! Added to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:31, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
HF
I hope to be able to get to this this weekend. Hog Farm Talk 19:24, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Link Sea of Japan?
- Is it known how he got into DPP without a bachelor's degree?
- Is it known why he didn't just retake the heat transfer class? Cost, birth of child, etc.?
- He had to retake the entire heat transfer course, but he had been accepted by the Navy and had to show up at Pensacola. Wrote: "Plans to retake his heat transfer course were put aside when Carpenter was recruited by the Navy's Direct Procurement Program (DPP) as its 500th candidate." Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:13, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Carpenter was considered the most physically fit by his peers; " - since this is from the Carpenter memoir, should this be attributed? I don't know that very many men in a military context would say that they were considered less physically fit than their peers.
- ""The malfunction of the pitch horizon scanner circuit [a component of the automatic control system] dictated that the pilot manually control the spacecraft attitudes during this event."" - it is unclear to me what this quote adds to the article, since all of this is discussed in the preceding sentences
- "The now-closed Aurora 7 Elementary School, also in Boulder, was named for Carpenter's spacecraft"- I'm not seeing where this is supported in the source?
- "Scott Carpenter Middle School in Westminster, Colorado, was named in his honor," - source redirects to a homepage that doesn't mention Carpenter
- The first paragraph of the popular culture section only has primary source, is there any hope of secondary sourcing to demonstrate the significance of those items?
I think that's all from me. Hog Farm Talk 02:39, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
Wehwalt
- "She recovered sufficiently to become chief medical librarian at Boulder Community Hospital in 1945. His father remained in New York, and he seldom saw him. He found it hard to find work during the Great Depression, but eventually secured a good position at Givaudan. His parents divorced in 1945, and his father remarried.[3]" Requires a lot of parsing to figure out who the "he"s are.
- "and earned the rank of Second Class Scout.[7]" This is far from exceptional. Is it worth the mention? Or does it contrast against other astronauts who became Eagle Scouts?
- Another editor thought is was, and even suggested adding this image to the the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:01, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
- Since his high school is mentioned in consecutive sections, you might want to clear up when he graduated. He attempted to join the service before graduation? I notice he was under 18.
- "University of Colorado at Boulder." I might delete "at Boulder". It is the principal campus and Boulder is mentioned earlier in the sentence.
- "The first astronauts intake" I'm not sure, but consider "astronaut" instead of the plural.
- I guess a lot of the interest of this is going to be about the overshoot, but I'm not sure we get the full sense of what you call a "simmering" controversy. We get the views of Kraft, Kranz and Cernan but very much in retrospect. What went on, what was said, at the time? Did this affect Carpenter's willingness to go do something else, and NASA's willingness to release him to do it? Also, he was injured in a motorcycle accident. Was he supposed to be doing that (remembering NASA's later reaction to Cooper's car racing)?
- I guess that's about it. A good read.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:03, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
- Just was reading his NY times obit, it says "The uncertainty over his fate was only one problem with the flight. The equipment controlling the capsule’s attitude (the way it was pointed) had gone awry; moreover, he fired his re-entry rockets three seconds late, and they did not carry the anticipated thrust. He also fell behind on his many tasks during the flight’s final moments, and his fuel ran low when he inadvertently left two control systems on at the same time." From here. Some of that may be a bit more succinct than what you've stated.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:11, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
Source review
Hi Hawkeye7. There are 118 references, and I will be reviewing 10% (12 refs). Here goes the source review:
- Ref #7: ok.
- Ref #14: ok.
- Ref #23: ok.
- Ref #32: ok. I would suggest replacing "man" with "astronaut" because of the WP:GNL rule.
- Ref #45: Carpenter's specialty in navigational equipment is stated on page 237, not page 238 as we have said here.
- Ref #51: ok.
- Ref #65: ok.
- Ref #72: ok.
- Ref #86: ok.
- Ref #91: ok.
- Ref #101: ok.
- Ref #116: ok.
There are two minor suggestions above, but nothing serious. That's all from me. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 13:35, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- Corrected Ref #45. Have to think about #32, as the whole paragraph would have to be changed. On the one hand, "man" was usually used for "human" at the time; on the other, there was no thought whatsoever of women becoming astronauts, so GNL might be misleading.
- nb: I know this sounds counter-intuitive to some people, but in sampling, it is the size of the sample, not the percentage of the population that is significant. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7, I understand, it was just a suggestion based on what I've seen at FAC. Anyways, the source review is a pass. The article also 3 supports and passed the image review, so it is being promoted. Congratulations on another good one! Matarisvan (talk) 19:56, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.