Talk:2007–08 Premier League

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Clean Sheet Table

Can Any one Add clean Sheet table for EPL. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.118.128.252 (talk) 09:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Reading Kit

I can see that Umbro has been confirmed as Reading's sponsor next season but I can find no evidence for this on the net or on Reading's club site. Can we please see some confirmation. Ultrabeater 16:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

It appears the info may justhave been entered in the wrong column Chaza93 20:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Rid of this chat please too. (Piyush90 19:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC))

Liverpool Kits

Will officially be today (31 May) but on the adidas Liverpool site you can see on the preview that it's going to be a white shirt with a red outlining.

Match Table

Match Table Added for Next Season  ¢нαzα93  11:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Form guide

For when the season starts should we have a 6 game form guide, like the one on the official website.

Personally, I think that would be a bit difficult to maintain, and not very encyclopaedic. It's a no from me this time. - PeeJay 19:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry its a no from me, Simon? Chaza93 08:37, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Live Tv Rights

I've added the most comprehensive list I can manage. Htb50 16:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, but is it worthy of inclusion? Similar lists of international broadcasters have been removed from most TV Series, and I think it is of even less relevance here. - fchd 18:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I suppose I should form the defence's case :) Well, I think it does simply because there is a precident - the La Liga 06/07 article. You could, though, argue that maybe we could have a seperate article linked in the main Premier League page, as is the case with F1 and the UEFA Champions League (which I set-up and which would greatly benefit from help from others).Htb50 14:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I will create the page List of Premier League Broadcasters (2007-08) because the broadcasters are very likely to change over time Chaza1000 05:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
  • OK, but I guess it will probably be at AfD before long. - fchd 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
  • OK Chaza, that's a fair compromise :) Htb50 10:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixture lists

As those of us who run supporter related sites know, it is illegal to post fixtures without a license from the FootballDataCo. I have removed the fixtures. Not because I agree with those SOBs, but because I don't want to see WP get sued. Jddphd 23:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Drive-by comment by curious recent-changes watcher: Are you sure? US law applies to Wikipedia, and I'm fairly confident this isn't true of US schedules for baseball, american football, etc. I'd be surprised if it applies to football fixtures published in the US. I'm not confident enough about it to revert, but something to think about and look into, maybe. --barneca (talk) 23:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
No, I'm sure. I might be driving by, but I am also a committee member of the Manchester United Supporters Trust and a contributer to the fanzine Red News. I know from whence I speak. The schedules for US sports are not guarded nearly as zealously as the EPL fixtures. I'm not kidding. Jddphd 23:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Here - look at this too Jddphd 23:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
From the PA-SPORT.com site...

Football Fixtures. Official fixture lists for all the major players.

PA Sport are the primary distributors of fixture lists for the English Premier League, The Football League, The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish League - acting on behalf of the leagues' agent - Football DataCo Ltd.

In this capacity, PA Sport administers the licensing of the fixtures from the leagues above. Anyone publishing fixtures in any form from these leagues must purchase and display a current Football DataCo license - which is only obtainable through PA Sport.

As an additional service, PA Sport offers a number of football fixture page-ready products to newspapers and other publications. Page-ready panels and full pages are available in three main formats and can be made in the customer's own dimensions and styles.

PA Sport provides fixtures on a day-to-day basis to national, regional newspapers in the UK and international publications. For clients who need more immediate updates we supply a fixtures feed that provides updates as soon as they are announced by the clubs and leagues themselves - vital information for web, mobile and betting clients.

For more information on obtaining a copyright licence to publish pre-season fixtures and the delivery of fixtures information please contact us.

Jddphd 23:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Just want to be clear about a couple of things:
  1. I meant I was a drive-by commenter, not you. No snideness was intended.
  1. I understand people in the UK and the EU are bound by this, and that your off-wiki site in (I assume) the UK is bound by this. I'm just wondering if Wikipedia is, since in a disclaimer somewhere it says Wikipedia is bound by the laws of the State of Florida. My (very limited) understanding of US copyright law is that, regardless of whether they were zealous or not, an American sports team couldn't copyright their upcoming schedule. If my interpretation is right, the US approach is that you can't copyright facts. So, I was just wondering aloud whether this would come in handy for you or not. In fact, one reason I think this, is a thread I stumbled across somewhere recently, and which I will try to find momentarily, where someone (with apparently Wikipedia community backing) was parsing a list of birds on a website that claimed to be copyrighted. If I can find that thread before I leave, I'll post it here.
  1. Like I said, this is certainly not enough justification to add the fixtures back, and I could certainly be wrong. But if you're interested, it might be worth looking into in more detail. --barneca (talk) 23:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Well I was driving by too :-) No offence taken, none intended on my part either.
I'll try to have a look around to see what I can see. --Jddphd 00:11, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I've poked around on several copyright-related pages linked from WP:Copyright, and haven't found anything. It's an interesting enough question to me that I am in the process of composing a question on Wikipedia talk:Copyrights/Can I use...#Football fixtures. The link should be live in 5 to 10 minutes (still tidying it up), and we'll see if anyone with more experience than me chimes in. --barneca (talk) 00:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Good post. Let's see what gets reeled in. Jddphd 00:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Look - we had the Fixtures up by now for last season, and we encountered no problems so i dont see what all the fuss is about Chaza 93 Ukraine 17:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
That's because there were several people who kept stripping them out whenever they found them. Football DataCo are very hot on this. There is a definite claim of copyright, and for Wikipedia to ignore this on the basis that it doesn't work that way for US sport fixtures would be extreme folly. I don't agree with their interpretation of the copyright, or the way then enforce it, but it has been proven in court (albeit quite some time ago). - fchd 18:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, never knew that we english weren't even allowed to put football fixtures on the internet for other peoples benefits in an encyclopedia - it just doesn't make any sense to me! Chaza 93 08:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have to make sense. That's just the way it is. - PeeJay 09:27, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

In which case, shouldn't there be a line saying fixtures will be included when allowed by copyright law?

No, because they won't ever be allowed by copyright law, unless law changes to prevent people from claiming anything as their intellectual property. - PeeJay 19:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Colors of the Result table

Answer to User:El-Nin09's question: The black squares, what I believe you mean the gray squares that are place in the row/column intersection of the same team, use the color code CCCCCC. I think this is a good color because is not to dark to take the attention from the score squares. The blue code is DFE7FF and the red code is FFDFDF. I hope I understood your question and this answer it. Regards.--ClaudioMB 16:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Is the "new" table really an improvement on the old one? I'm suprised you have made such a major change without discussing it at Talk first (unless I'm missing something, in which case I apologise) . - fchd 16:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I didn't discuss it before change. Maybe I should have done that. Anyway, the improvement is not much for readers, since, visually, the difference is minimal, but for editors, it's a great improvement because it is much easier to add new scores.--ClaudioMB 16:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I think that El-Nin09 actually meant the squares for future games which have not yet been played, not the squares blanked out because teams can't play themselves. The new table, while (I say this from experience) being much easier to edit quickly, doesn't load correctly in Internet Explorer (and possibly other browsers, I've only tested FF and IE7). The squares which don't have their own background preset - i.e. match squares with no results in (yet) are set to black for some reason, by IE. I'm not sure why it does that, but it does - I caught onto this fact when I looked up the table on IE7 at work earlier, and have subsequently tested it on my own IE7 at home. It does look a little ugly, I have to say, but I guess it's not awful - at least when results come in, the black squares are slowly replaced with correctly-coloured ones. Falastur2 18:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

But, in all previous seasons they are not black, and we have never had consensus to change the table, and i would be willing to accept the colored result squares, as long as you are able to use HTML and WIKI coding to make the black "future fixture" squares white again. El-Nin09 18:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Calm down, man. It's not the end of the world. Internet Explorer has many flaws, and this is evidently a consequence of one of them. Just don't get in a stress about it. - PeeJay 19:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, sorry for losing it a bit, can we not compromise and just use the Color codes to colorize the current table El-Nin09 19:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I don't think colouring the table is necessary. It's easy to see whether the match resulted in a home win, an away win or a draw, just by comparing the numbers of goals scored by each team. The table is fine as it is now, and, provided consensus agrees, we should leave it that way. - PeeJay 19:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I apologize, totally my fault. I didn't test the table in IE, I use Fire Fox. The for future matches were set like this "bgcolor#" what result white in FF and black in IE. Now, it's fixed. I'll place the "new" table back, then we can see what editors think about it. About the blue and red, it just makes much easier for readers see how a team is playing at home and away. But this could be change. The important about this table is the editing, not the layout. If wanted, it could look exactly like the "old" one. --ClaudioMB 20:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
This is just conjecture, but looking forwards to the end of the season, this new style results table is going to end up looking like a poorly-made quilt with all those different colours all over the place. The only thing this table has going for it is that it is easier to input the results this way. - PeeJay 20:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I have to say, now it is fixed, i would go with this table, it looks better and the Columns are equal widthsEl-Nin09 20:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
The blue and red could be change any time. I'll improve the templates documentation, so, if necessary, anyone could easy change it in the future. Regards. --ClaudioMB 20:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Sortable standings table

I'm curious as to why the standings table is sortable. It is really an unnecessary function, and when things are sorted everything is thrown into disarray when it comes to place for Europe/relegation status (the table becomes broken, for lack of a better word). It may be easier to update the standings at the end of each game, but I can't see there being a need for it being sortable. --Snojoe 18:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I really wish User:ClaudioMB would discuss things here before making drastic changes like that. - PeeJay 18:43, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Some people could find unnecessary, others, like myself, useful. I don't like to impose my taste to others, in this case, who doesn't like to sort, just don't use it. Anyway, since the table was not sortable before and nobody else, but me, want sortable, leave not sortable. I'll change the template to sortable be an option, so other article could use it. About the change, the code is drastically different, but the table's look is pretty much as before. Because the content, not the code, is the goal of Wikipedia, I didn't feel a discussion should be necessary. However, next time I'll open a discussion before do it. Regards. --ClaudioMB 07:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I actually think having a sortable table would be very handy. Its handy to see who has scored the most goals, conceded the most et cetera. Is there no way this could be reimplimented? Codu (t)⁄(c) •  13:50, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
The way to make the table sortable is adding the sort parameter in the first template, like this: {{Fb_cl_header |sort=y }}. --ClaudioMB 21:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Is scheduled to end

I changed it because in 1989 an earthquake changed the schedule of the baseball championship and delayed the games several days. Therefore, even if we think the season will end, it may not end at that date. Another example was the premature end of the 1994 baseball season. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Radio Guy (talk • contribs) 03:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC).


League Table

OK we do not do branding on this page can Coca Cola please be removed El-Nin09 18:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. Like I have said before, I really wish User:ClaudioMB had consulted the discussion page before making such a wholesale change to the structure of the article. - PeeJay 18:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi guys. Before changes to the premier league season's page by new or unregistered users was taken away (why btw?), I added the purple intertoto qualification colour to the 6th place standing because I read somewhere that that's what happens (don't understand coding so copy pasted from another league's page). Now I can't fix it like I normally would and it looks stupid being out of place.

Long story short please fix the ugly table. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryn2587 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Qualification for the Inter-Toto Cup is awarded to the highest-placed team that applied for the tournament. There has been no indication that Portsmouth applied for entry to the Inter-Toto, so the colouration is applied to the next highest team who did apply: Aston Villa. – PeeJay 23:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Portsmouth Canterbury Kit

Just want to confirm one thing - it appears Deportivo la Coruna also have a Canterbury kit. Are we confident in saying the Portsmouth kit was first - if we are, can it be cited? 121.208.196.161 13:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Fastest goal table

I found it is very ridicious to put the goals scored outside 1 minute. Why don't we make the list into the top 10 fastest goals? Raymond Giggs 06:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. That goals less than a minute is complete poppycock. I think that ridiculous thing should be removed. Crazywax (talk) 22:49, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm inclined to agree. There is an entry for the fastest goal of the season in the Season statistics section, so I don't see why we need to have a separate table for just two more fast goals. – PeeJay 22:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Top Scorer Table

I think we should included all goal scoreres for the whole season and then at the end cut it back to the top ten as i feel it will be easier to update as all the scorers will be on there, and having it as we do we could miss a player out when he reaches the top ten, what do you think? MotorSportMCMXC 08:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree, if people can be sure to keep it up-to-date. We did have all the scorers before someone, unilaterally, decided those with only one goal had to go!--Egghead06 08:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
That is pointless, because then imagine how long the list would get, i propose limiting it to the one on here El-Nin09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.159.134.133 (talk) 19:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I think about 10 or 12 would be the right size for such a list, with all those tied for the last included place obviously included. - fchd 19:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
That's why I changed it in the first place, except I lacked the eloquence to explain it then. - PeeJay 19:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I would advise that you do NOT do this until we are further in the season, otherwise the list will be stupendously huge at the moment! El-Nin09 19:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
So we came to consensus to shorten this list to the top 10-12 did we? Must have missed it!!!!--Egghead06 07:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thats why we got rid of the players who only scored 1 goal and as all the other seasons show the top 10 is the amount needed MotorSportMCMXC 15:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. What's the point in having a really long list of every player who scored a goal this season? - PeeJay 16:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The point is that it is in work in progress. As pointed out, above, to have all names makes it easier to increment totals. At the END of the season reverting it to 10-12 would be the time to do it. Also there are ways of having scrollable tables of data within a fixed data box (ie the box stays the same size, the data scrolls within it, so not making a long list)--Egghead06 16:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Please, please,please no to scrollable tables. These are an accessibility nightmare. As I said earlier in the thread, 10-12 names seems about right. If you add many more, the table loses it's impact. Keep "Works In Progress" to user pages and personal websites. This is an encyclopaedia after all. - fchd 17:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I dont know if any one noticed but I was trying to find top scorers for each team, maybe you can add this. I tried looking at individual clubs but this information seems to be missed out, unless maybe its just me who thinks it is something that should be included. Please could you either add or make new section for top scorers for club. Thanks for the co-operation ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.137.76 (talk) 01:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Several Premier League clubs have articles detailing their individual seasons, and these should include the information you are looking for. It is not necessary to put it in this article, as the top scorer for each club does not necessarily have a profound effect on the league season. – PeeJay 09:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

premier league clubs do but this is info and should be here. just put top scorer for the club in the table next to the team with the goals in brackets. it has a significance, as you can see by the top ten scorers.. their teams didnt exactly finish at the bottom half

Editing

Is there anyway we can make the article so only users can edit it as it is really annoying with people messing up the table? MotorSportMCMXC 15:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's the policy: Wikipedia:Protection_policy.--ClaudioMB 15:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
You cant do it just for that reason! El-Nin09 19:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Golden Boot

Are the Golden Boot standings going to include assists? Most countries use assists to sort players with the same goal total. Currently last name is being used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.190.13 (talk) 15:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

England isn't "most countries" though, is it? The Premier League ranks players with the same number of goals equally, so sorting by alphabetical order seems a logical way to organise the table. - PeeJay 16:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Don't they share it like Owen did a few years back? (Piyush90 18:22, 15 October 2007 (UTC))
Yes, but the goalscorers have to be sorted in a table somehow, and since no record of assists is kept, alphabetical order is the best way to do it for players who are level on goals scored. - PeeJay 21:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Serious Citations Needed

I have placed several Citation needed tags on the article, because it just says things at the moment that may not be true, please find some sources, or i will remove the uncited stuff in 1 week, so next Tuesday (2nd Oct) El-Nin09 18:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Done - PeeJay 20:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
OK - now you may think i am being really picky, and some of this is just General Knowledge, but i have placed some more tags on the article. El-Nin09 12:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Also done. And perhaps it was picky, but I guess it was needed. Some of that info wasn't easy for me to track down for the placing of citations. Falastur2 16:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, ill be less picky on this article (easy, they are all done, hehe!)El-Nin09 17:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry about it. Pickiness is good when it benefits Wiki. Falastur2 23:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

OK well in that case i found some more lol El-Nin09 18:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Which have now been cited. - PeeJay 18:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Archiving

Piyush90, please remember that archiving is not about keeping material up-to-date. Talk pages are not articles - when the information in them is out of date, we don't remove the text, it remains there as a record of the discussions that have taken place. Though the first few points here are not relevant to the article anymore, they are evidence of user activity, can be referenced in debates in future on how to proceed, and exist to prove that such discussion has already taken place. The point of archiving, on the other hand, is to abbreviate pages which may pose problems in loading for users with slow internet connections. While approaching that point, this talk page does not yet really have enough information to be worth archiving. If your concern is with being able to see the latest talking points instantly, then I would point out that that is not what archiving is for, and that you can do this easiest by using the "end" button on your keyboard to instantly view the bottom of the page, or by using the menu to select the query that you are interested in. Please see WP:ARCHIVE on Wikipedia's policy on Archiving. Falastur2 21:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I removed the "Isn't Fulham Safe" bit because it had nothing to do with this season as is therefore not needed. Furthermore, Talk pages are needed mostly for making the actual article better and more accurate - not just for talking. It has to lead somewhere. Plus it would get crammed with a million posts if we didn't clean up very old posts regulary.(90.201.204.209 20:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)).

Table question

The German Bundesliga table traditionally notes the previous year's league winner, cup winner, relegated teams, etc (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2007/08). Why isn't this done for the Premiereship? 69.231.199.194 19:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it's not relevant to this year's table? - fchd 19:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Manager change table

Goal by Tomas Rosicky v Boro

Updating the League Table

Wigan Athletic Kit

Sorting the league table by goal difference

Competition berths clinched

Emmanuel Eboue

Intertoto Cup

UEFA Cup

Relegated/Relegation

Tottenham and UEFA Cup

Derby Relegated

Portsmouth & UEFA Cup

Pictures

sortable table

Manchester City

Average home attendances

Manchester United titles

Reference

Archiving of the talk page

Avram Grant Highest Ever Placed Sacked Manager?

Orphaned references in 2007–08 Premier League

Dead link

External links modified

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