Talk:Anti-gender movement

I open this section in regard to the following edits:

• 01:50, 5 January 2026  Blurryman (talk | contribs): (This is an OPINION, not an incontrovertible fact.)

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  The movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

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  It has been suggested by Kuhar & Paternotte that the movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

• 02:10, 5 January 2026  SreySros (talk | contribs): (Reverting edit(s) by Blurryman (talk) to rev. 1330984854 by NatGertler: Plenty of other sourcing in article body, sufficient for wikivoice (RW 16.1))

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  It has been suggested by Kuhar & Paternotte that the movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

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  The movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

• 00:13, 11 January 2026  Pete unseth (talk | contribs): (Undid revision 1331191724 by SreySros (talk) It is a belief, needs a source)

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  The movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

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  It has been suggested by Kuhar & Paternotte that the movement's beliefs derive from [[Catholic theology]], and its origin can be dated to as early as the 1970s, though it drew greater attention and membership starting in 2012 through [[public protest]].

This passage occurs in the lead section, and has an in-text citation to per LeadCite, but the Catholic origins of the ideology are well-substantiated in the body of the article by , , , , , among others.

The offered justifications, this is an OPINION, not an incontrovertible fact, and [i]t is a belief, needs a source, seem rather weak to me. There seems to be scholarly consensus that this movement originated within the Catholic church, and I don't see any way that this claim falls into the ITA guideline or even the Assert explanatory essay. Srey Sros^talk 04:09, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

I don't agree that it's an opinion, it's as far as I know uncontroversial statement of fact. (t · c) buIdhe 04:44, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

But that's not what the article says, and so the lead you reverted to is not a proper summary. We are saying The origins of the anti-gender movement have often been traced to discussions within the Catholic Church in the 1990s (my emphasis) and then, in the last paragraph we posit a 1970s origin stemming from the gay agenda and attributed to unspecified religious groups. The paragraph is attributed to Hodges and supported by an article by TV Ontario, which is not a great source, but not unusual for Wikipedia. The previous paragraph is sourced to an essay put out by Chicago Law School.

Now I haven't studied this subject, and I don't know what the right or wrong is here, but it is clear that the two editors who have objected that this is an opinion and not incontrovertible fact have a point, inasmuch as that is how the article currently presents the matter. I agree we shouldn't need to cite anything in the lead if the lead properly summarises the article. Currently it does not. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:51, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

There is some dispute on the date that the movement can be traced to, but all of the sources I have seen and would consider RS say that the origin was Catholic theology. (t · c) buIdhe 16:39, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

Greetings, all. Possibly a small matter this (and it has been touched upon in the past - see here). A pseudo-scientific claim is not always a conspiracy theory, while a conspiracy theory is not always a matter of pseudo-science either. Examples for the former and the latter would be, respectively, the claim that the Earth is flat and the alternative theories about the assassination of JFK. Is the anti-gender movement, the critical-gender theory, TERF, conspiracy theories? The arguments they deploy may (or, some might argue, may not) be scientifically incorrect but I personally doubt the overall worldview can be classed as a conspiracy theory. Thoughts? -The Gnome (talk) 16:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

From the cited paper: "We define gender conspiracy beliefs as convictions that gender studies and gender-equality activists represent an ideology secretly designed to harm traditional values and social arrangements." I think those claims fit the definition of a conspiracy theory. I do think the sentence could be worded a bit better though, and will change it in a bit. InfernoHues (talk) 19:04, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

These conspiracy beliefs, though, are by no means representative of that whole side of the aisle. Which is why I feel uncomfortable having that category in the "See also" section. I don't think it has a place there. -The Gnome (talk) 13:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC)

I'm fine removing from "See also," go ahead with the removal. If you have better wording for the lead sentence I'm good with taking a look at that as well. InfernoHues (talk) 13:17, 8 July 2026 (UTC)

There definitely is some conspiratorial thinking going on even if it isn't the whole anti-gender movement. This is true within flat Earth circles too (Remember it's circles, not spheres. They don't like it when you talk about spheres.) Pseudoscience has to explain its failure to match up with reality and conspiracy theories are a natural thing to reach for. In the case of flat Earth, they sort of have little choice but to believe in an unbroken 2,500 year long Greek led conspiracy to suppress knowledge of the the Earth's perimeter in order to promote the lie of a spherical Earth for... um... reasons. As for gender, there definitely are some Nazi types who think it is all a Jewish conspiracy to degenerate and enfeeble the white race, with its leadership running from Magnus Hirschfeld to George Soros somehow. Of course, not all in the anti-gender movement believe that crap, but some do, probably more than will admit to it. So, yeah, let's cover the conspiratorial elements here but not to the extent that we make broader claims than are justified. --DanielRigal (talk) 21:58, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

Do you want to change the wording more? I did change the wording somewhat, but I still feel like it implies that all or most people in the anti-gender movement are conspiracy theorists, when that isn't what the source says. InfernoHues (talk) 22:04, 6 July 2026 (UTC)