Talk:Assyrians

Some 20th-century historians, including Herbert W. Armstrong, assert that some Assyrians settled in Central Europe and contribute to the ancestry of modern Germans. Other antiquarian writers claim that Assyrians have historically displayed lighter pigmentation and fair hair.^[1][2][3]

In his 1873 work Studien über indogermanisch-semitische Wurzelverwandtschaft, Friedrich Delitzsch claimed that Assyrian was the most "primitive" or "pure" of the Semitic languages that retained visible phonetic links to Proto-Indo-European roots. By the early 20th century, he continued to characterize the Assyrians as a noble, "Aryan-like" warrior people, distinct from other Semitic groups whom he viewed as "degenerated." This reclassification extended to his "Aryan Jesus" theory, in which he claimed that Jesus of Nazareth was not ethnically Jewish but a descendant of Assyrians who had repopulated the region following the fall of the Northern Kingdom of Israel.^[4][5] ~2026-84712-2 (talk) 16:00, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

 Done

Hittite language needs to be included in the language section^{[1] [2]} ~2026-84712-2 (talk) 16:30, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

I don't agree. The main topic of this article is the Christian ethnoreligious group which originates from the first century. On Hittite language I read attested 17th to 12th centuries BC. So while some of their ancestors spoke Hittite, individuals of this group did never. --wimmel (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

The word ethnoreligious is not found in this article, and it doesn't seem to point to Assyrians being defined by religion. Additionally, Akkadian and Sumerian are currently listed as one of the languages. Mynameiscandle (talk) 20:08, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

It is linked to wikidata d:Q377085 where it is defined as a ethnoreligious group. See also the article ethnoreligious group where it is mentioned as an example. The wikidata page about the ancient Assyrians is d:Q745718 and is linked to History of the Assyrians. --wimmel (talk) 21:22, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Then take off akkadian and sumerian Mynameiscandle (talk) 03:53, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

 Done

Change the population in Iraq to be more accurate, this is the only reliable source^[1]

Additionally, we have post-war estimates for Syria^[2]

Updated image.

~2026-84712-2 (talk) 16:47, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

 Done The Syriac Orthodox Church points its identity back to Acts 11:26 when Paul and Barnabas taught believers and called them Christians. Scholars generally locate the origins of Syriac Christianity in both a Jewish Christian heritage and the Hellenists of Antioch.^[1] Mynameiscandle (talk) 06:17, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

Sargon Gallu You have recently undid an edit that had additional sourced content, and had put the introduction paragraphs in their respective sections to avoid repeated information. Can you specify what the issue is specifically? If you compare the two versions it is clear which one is more encyclopedic. Mynameiscandle (talk) 04:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

And all three paragraphs in Persecution should be moved to their respective category in the History section. There is a lot of repetition and redundancy Mynameiscandle (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

"Image doesnt do it justice" well the one you replaced it with contains colors for countries that arent mentioned in the below demographics. If you have an issue with something specific then thats fine but replacing the introduction paragraph when it mentions babylonians—assyrians are a modern people, lets act like it. Mynameiscandle (talk) 06:11, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

@Mynameiscandle I've just restored the lead as restored by @Sargon Gallu. The changes you made to the lead are incredibly downsized from what the original overview was and delves more into a discussion of identity and continuity rather than an overview of who the Assyrians are. The original lead discusses their heritage and roots to the Assyrian empire, the language(s) that Assyrians speak, their religion and homeland, and their recent history. The new lead removes almost all of that and focuses more on the endonym that Assyrians use. This is quite problematic, especially when the endonym discussion cites Johny Messo. He is neither a reliable source nor an academic, as Sargon Gallu pointed out, and he is also quite well known for expressing anti-Assyrian sentiment in favor of Aramean nationalism.

Also, this image of the Assyrian diaspora does not have any source(s) attached to it. How did you compile the information necessary to make this map? Unless that is clarified, the map is effectively WP:OR and cannot be used in the article.

I would also like to point out, as you're new to English Wiki, that you're editing in a topic currently under general sanctions: WP:GS/ACAS. I'll leave a talk message on your page so that you can learn more about editing in the topic area. Surayeproject3 (talk) 14:35, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

Heritage, language, roots to the assyrian empire, religion, are all discussed in the lead. Yes I did remove mention of the ancient akkadians, babylonians and other information that had its own section dedicated to it. Lets remember this is about the modern assyrians, and there is a separate article meant for ancient history. The ethnonym section however is necessary as we dont have any understanding of the term assyrians and I am fine with revising the sources and content but I think it does a great job of explaining the assyrian ethnonym and identity. The sources for the image are all the below sources for the populations, it is reflecting the population estimates that follows right after. Mynameiscandle (talk) 21:59, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

Im not going to continue doing the edits and restores because at this point it’s just not worth it when this is the outcome. If you think assyrians are defined through ISIS persecution and Babylonians then that’s your call. It feels reckless with the restorations as you removed the supporting source for italy’s population (it currently only has one by AINA which is unreliable) and you also added “Liturgical:” infront of neo-aramaic languages, even though they are not solely used liturgically. Not to mention john messo wasn’t the only source for the endonym, and from what I’m aware its not even controversial, it certainly doesn’t seem to diminish the assyrian identity. We should focus on fixing the islamophobic and racist rhetoric, as well as the repetitive information, before replacing a lead summary that discusses everything relevant about assyrians and includes links to other pages to learn more. Not to mention an image that is more accurate than what is currently on there. And the assyrian jews page was merged to a page that brought no content from it and its conveniently locked to admins only, where it now only addresses kurdish individuals who just so happen to speak assyrian. It just feels like selective criticism when anyone tries to add decent additions. You are not the only assyrian wikipedia editor Mynameiscandle (talk) 01:08, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

@Mynameiscandle I only just now saw that you had sent your original reply. There is of course room to discuss the endonym, but it is probably better to do so elsewhere in the article without removing other parts of the lead. Besides, you should also consider the works of Simo Parpola, Efrem Yildiz, and others when discussing it, as the terms do come from Assyrian originally (Name of Syria is relevant here). I am not against you restoring the population for Italy if it's supported by a reliable source, but the map still needs to be sourced before being included. Overall, I am largely in agreement, though, that this page does seriously need a work-up on better defining Assyrians and who we are. I am open to hearing your suggestions, and please feel free to discuss. PresentlySuraye3 (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

I have updated the world map. For Iraq, the european services source says: "Chaldeans and Assyrians share an origin, but the former have

assumed Arab identity, while the latter have not.", this just isn't true and I call into question how accurate this source is.

I want to make you aware that the paragraphs following the lead are currently redundant as they were put in their respective sections. I did not just remove the content, it was condensed into more appropriate subcategories Mynameiscandle (talk) 05:55, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Your recent edits look fine to me. I can't cross-check the sources on the map to confirm the population statistics otherwise but at least you clarified the sourcing so that's good. And yes, the European Services Source is most definitely not true. PresentlySuraye3 (talk) 13:23, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

I think we should replace the first five paragraphs with the below:

Assyrians (Syriac: ܣܘܪ̈ܝܐ, romanized: Sūrāyē / Sūrōyē), also known as Chaldeans or Arameans, are a distinct ethnic group native to Mesopotamia. Assyrian belongs to the Aramaic branch of the Semitic language family, and the majority adhere to Syriac Christianity. They have a notable presence in former parts of the Assyrian Empire and are widely considered the closest living descendants of the ancient Mesopotamians, with traditions tracing their lineage to Noah and his Ark.

Indigenous to a homeland spanning parts of modern-day Iraq, Turkey, Iran, and Syria, Assyrians are primarily Christian, following East and West Syriac liturgical rites. They have played an important role in fields of literature, theology, linguistics, education, medicine, architecture, commerce, music, and the arts. They transitioned from Akkadian to Aramaic (the 3,000-year-old lingua franca spoken by Jesus) and continue to speak Neo-Aramaic dialects like Suret and Turoyo today. They are typically attached to their towns, villages, and church communities, expressed in the form of either regionalism or municipalism. Genocidal events, including Sayfo, instability following the Iraq war, and the rise of the Islamic State have forced a majority into a global diaspora. In response, Assyrians have mobilized for self-defense through groups like the Nineveh Plain Protection Units and the Sutoro.

will include references. We could then do one more following paragraph about the etymology/name. Mynameiscandle (talk) 02:21, 21 February 2026 (UTC) Mynameiscandle (talk) 02:21, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

the total population in the page keeps getting changed, one changed it to 3-4 million another changed it to 3-5 million and then another one changed it into 3.5 million we need to decide which number is the correct number of Assyrians worldwide to avoid the population changing up and down.

Another thing to point out: the Assyrian population isn't 3.5 million or under, the 3 million estimate is quite old and has continuously been reused despite newer estimates being introduced. multiple sources indicate that the assyrian population is well over 3.5 million today, specifically UNPO with their source back in 2003 suggest that the assyrians were around 4.5 million, which means the assyrian population should be 4.5 to 5 million people according to the sources. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 18:11, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

The source that is currently there is fine, if anything the 3.5 million is an overestimation because the regions below don’t have populations that add up to even half of that number. ~2026-11601-39 (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

The estimates in the regions below only have regions with major populations and the estimates are different dates, they don't usually sum up the entire population, every other ethnic group doesn't sum up the total population in the regions with significant populations, examples are Circassians, Armenians, Turkmens and many others.

I don't really think that single source is fine, sources i showed such as Cultural Survival and UNPO estimate the population at around 4.5 million to over five million, and other sources i showed suggest the Assyrian population to be over five million. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 10:33, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

At the same time, other ethnic group pages have one source. Before when there were 7 it was too messy and we can’t get a better source than assyrian policy institute. There are more urgent fixes on this article in my opinion. 3.5 million also sounds reasonable ~2026-11736-94 (talk) 14:28, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

The ethnic groups i listed have more then one source, and yes, those sources were messy, but now we have better sources for the total population, we can just use the two sources from UNPO and Cultural Survival for the population for it to be 4.5-5 million.

3.5 million does not sound reasonable at all, UNPO's source back in 2003 says the Assyrian population is way more then 3.5 million and Cultural Survival's source back in 2010 estimates the assyrians at over 5 million, why are the assyrians 3.5 million today? it doesn't make any sense. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 14:43, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

UNPO’s article is outdated and claims that assyrians are only one-third in the diaspora. Again, there are more important fixes on this article. For example the paragraphs in the persecution section should be merged into history, and there is no etymology of assyrians. There is also kurdification on other related pages. Additionally, cultural survival’s source sounds biased, it comes from an assyrian who goes on about how kurds get more attention and I think some edits recently have been to demonstrate that there is more to assyrians than just persecution and being minorities. Lets go forwards instead of backwards. ~2026-11736-94 (talk) 22:44, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

I agree that there are more issues to tackle, the population should be one of them.

if UNPO's article is "outdated" then i have plenty of more sources that i listed that are modern that supports the 5 million figure, and there's another source from Cultural Survival back in 2003 which puts the assyrians at around 4 million which raises questions about the 3.5 million estimate in the page, if the assyrians were around four million or 4.5 million back in 2003, then it wouldn't be possible for assyrians to be 3.5 million today. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 10:50, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

You are speculating. And is there any reason you think the Assyrian Policy Institute source (which seems to be the only one primarily focused on Assyrians) is unreliable? Bw02145 (talk) 00:09, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that the Assyrian Policy Institute is unreliable, am just questioning the estimate given, Britannica gives a range between 3 to 5 million the sources i presented estimate from 4 to 4.5 million (2003) to over 5 million (modern) and Assyrian Policy Institute estimate around 3.5 million.

since there is no definitive census about the assyrians overall, giving a range from 3 to 5 million may be more neutral then giving a single exact figure. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 12:20, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I'm not against what you're saying I just personally think it appears inauthentic with all these population ranges, even with the regions section it currently varies a lot and I think it can delegitimize Assyrian identity when we appear to not know much about our people or have consensus on something as simple as our presence. I think it's better to stick to one source, whichever is the most reliable. Bw02145 (talk) 13:19, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

If that's the case then let's stick to the source from Britannica, since they are more reliable then API and give a estimated range that's supported from both sources, it's more neutral that way, what do you say? Jsanihsjsn (talk) 14:09, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

The source for the world map was based on the regions below that were not changed, why did you remove it? Bw02145 (talk) 09:48, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

It was a simple mistake of mine, i removed everything in the population tab and i didn't see that the map was below the source, i have readded the map, thanks for pointing that out. Jsanihsjsn (talk) 10:22, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Govvy, you reverted my edits to this article, but there is absolutely no way you have found an issue with each of the dozens of edits that were made. If you have a specific issue then make your case, but anyone comparing the two versions should agree mine was better. Bw02145 (talk) 03:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Really now? I don't mean to be rude, but the article lead felt deconstructed and the style of the English became that much poorer for it. Govvy (talk) 11:06, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

So your issue is only with the lead yet you reverted like 20 edits that go beyond just the lead. And right now the lead is redundant and messy. Bw02145 (talk) 18:48, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

I have kept the lead but brought back the other edits. I'm not assuming you are not educated on the topic but it is reckless to mass revert all the edits. Bw02145 (talk) 19:14, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

I strongly suggest to you, to not be disruptive and breach certain policies. Govvy (talk) 19:39, 9 March 2026 (UTC)