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Talk:Casio F-91W

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Time machine?

If the watch was introduced in 1991, how could the Mexican president have started wearing his in 1988?

This specific model was introduced in 1991. The Casio F Series has been in production long before that, 1984 to be exact. So it is possible that he was wearing an older model of the F Series. U1Quattro (talk) 17:01, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

The watch is dated to at least 1990 or earlier. Here is a magazine dated 1990 listing the F91W on page 53: https://issuu.com/retromash/docs/argos-no34-1990-autumnwinter/2?ff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.28.21.76 (talk) 21:21, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

It isn't dated to 1988. I don't know what you're pondering about.U1 quattro TALK 03:36, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

@U1Quattro: have you just completely ignored the RFC happening on this page, or was this meant to be a joke comment? –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 05:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

MJL even the RFC doesn't say it's dated to 1988.U1 quattro TALK 05:18, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

@U1Quattro: It says it was dated to 1989 which is what the IP is essentially talking about here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 17:22, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
MJL I have said what I said. I wouldn't waste my time in this fruitless discussion.U1 quattro TALK 18:02, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
@U1Quattro: Well... okay then. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 18:33, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Terrorism Section

Is the paragraph starting with "Obviously, any other watch or device including a precise alarm can be easily modified..." written in the wrong style of writing? seems out of step with the rest of the article. RoyalBlueStuey (talk) 11:57, 25 July 2017undue (UTC)

The article gives undue WP:WEIGHT to terrorism. First of all the section is not broadly about "Usage in terrorism", but primarily about "Guantanamo detainees". More importantly, if it's popular with one group of people, that's only because it's popular as a timepiece in general. --Cornellier (talk) 13:20, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
I second this. Suggestion is to remove the terrorism section altogether. Cfeet77 (talk) 18:16, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
I disagree; it should be kept. Its notability as a "terrorist" watch is covered by several reliable sources. If you're concerned with the weight given to the section, then perhaps it could be trimmed down, instead? -Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 22:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
The main reason for the creation of this article was the usage of this watch in terrorism and the coverage of it by reliabie sources. Had it not been for terrorism, this watch would not have gathered the attention of the press and would've been ignored like the rest of standard Casio watches. If the main reason was ascertained to be the popularity among watch enthusiasts, then following that logic, the CA-53 should have it's own article as well. U1 quattro TALK 05:57, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
I suggest that a more appropriate way to describe this would be as done by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers in their Consumer Electronics Hall of Fame:
"In the mid-1990s, the F-91W became briefly notorious as “the terrorist watch.” Extremists in Pakistan and the Philippines learned how to use the F-91W as a timer for improvised explosive devices. The watch endured the bad publicity. More than 20 years later, it’s a bit of trivia that has faded from the consciousness of the watch-buying public."
--Cornellier (talk) 15:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
I don't think that this bit of trivia has "faded from the consciousness of the watch-buying public", considering the wealth of sources that reference it. I do, however, disagree with U1Quattro in that this is not the primary notable aspect of this watch, but rather an additional piece of information that has contributed to its cult-like success. The current "Usage in terrorism" section does not overshadow the rest of the article, so it does not need to be reduced in length or weight. This IEEE description is fairly uninformative and would, at most, suit the lead section of this article. —Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 12:50, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
If this is not a primary notable aspect of the watch then why does it have an article and the CA-53 doesn't? Both are popular watches so if we take popularity as a merit then both watches should have their own articles Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare. U1 quattro TALK 14:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Pure popularity doesn't determine the validity/merit of an article on Wikipedia. The subject matter has to establish notability through reliable sources. A quick preliminary Google News search, for example, yields approximately 500 articles for the F-91W and only eight for the CA-53 (none of which seem reliable). Granted, a considerable portion of the F-91W coverage has its roots in the terrorism aspect, but most of it seems to cover the merits of the watch itself (similar to the IEEE source posted by Cornellier). It seems that the coverage of this watch in reliable sources comes from a combination of its use in terrorism and its merits and popularity. —Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 09:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
The IEEE's Consumer Electronics Hall of Fame is a reliable WP:TERTIARY source. This trumps any evaluation of the notability of the terrorism aspect based on "the wealth of sources that reference it". The IEEE gives many reasons for the watch's popularity, none of which involve this so-called "notarity". Does anyone have a reliable third party source saying otherwise? I don't say the section should be elimated. However, the subject occupies fully half of the article's images, and roughly a quarter of the text, which is undue WP:WEIGHT. This matters because, as with the case of this watch's release date, this risks feeding circular reporting. --Cornellier (talk) 01:00, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Those sources had reported about the use of this watch in terrorism before this article existed unlike the release date which was a fault on bbc's end. U1 quattro TALK 08:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Even this overly reliable source is wrong about some things. First, there was no "stainless steel" version of the F-91W. Those have chrome painted plastic cases. The A1000D (a recently introduced all Stainless Steel watch) uses a different module. Second, there is no autocalender in this watch as it doesn't have the setting to set the year, but only month. You have to manually adjust for leap years. Casio has advertised this wrong. Even this Wiki article says so. Third, Terrorists in Afghanistan were also supplied with this watch.U1 quattro TALK 08:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
I think the distinction that has to be made here is the difference between the notability and popularity of the watch. The popularity of the watch (units sold) is largely not a result of its use in terrorism. However, its notability (coverage by reliable sources) is, at least partially, a result of this bit of trivia. Given that notability is the basis for inclusion on Wikipedia, I'd argue that the current division of information (20 % terrorism / 80 % general information, based on word and character counts) is appropriate. However, if we were to trim down the terrorism section, I don't think we should include questionable and unprovable statements like the IEEE's "it’s a bit of trivia that has faded from the consciousness of the watch-buying public". I'd also be fine with leaving out the latter two of the bomb timer photos and the blockquotes, as these do not add a significant amount of further information to the article. —Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 09:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
If the whole point of this article is the fact that the watch is popular then why the CA-53 his it's own article? It's a famous calculator watch and is also a best seller like the F-91W. U1 quattro TALK 12:38, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
The "whole point" of this article is not simply that the watch is popular. This article exists, because the watch (F91-W) has been established as notable through reliable third-party coverage. Once the CA-53 can be similarly demonstrated as notable (via reliable third-party sources), you (or anyone else) are free to make that article. —Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 19:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
And that comes from the fact that this watch was used in terrorism. Had it not been for it's use in terrorism, it would have the same amount of articles as the CA-53. Why does the F-91W get the most attention and the F-87W (a watch with the same functions and looks besides print on the screen) get ignored? It's due to this fact. U1 quattro TALK 03:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

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