Talk:Desert castles
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Please use the plural in the title: Desert castles!
In the singular it makes no sense. It's a category relating to a multitude of sites, like "Loire castles", "Rhine castles" etc. It's being used in the plural when naming the category, only when discussing a specific qasr is it used in the singular. Thank you.Arminden (talk) 22:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 22:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
This is obviously an article on Jordanian desert castles, I propose renaming it into an appropriate form...Makeandtoss (talk) 23:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
- Agree - renamed Desert castles of Jordan - I know some are over the borders, but this is a clearer name Johnbod (talk) 02:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Johnbod: I just noticed the external languages section, they all seem to talk about Jordan but none have Jordan in their title... Did we miss something? Makeandtoss (talk) 23:38, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
@Johnbod: Yes, you did miss something :-) The difference is between popular tourism advertisement, largely irrelevant to WP, and science (history, archaeology), which is very much relevant. This Umayyad qasr is typical to Bilad ash-Sham, which includes far more than modern Jordan. It is ridiculous to follow the lead of a national ministry of tourism in defining the scope of an encyclopedic article, even if others made the same mistake on various non-English WP pages. Don't take my word for it,google for "Umayyad Desert Castles". One of the foremost specialists,the French archaeologist Denis Genequand, did widespread studies on the topic- see just the beginning of the review at . Cheres, Arminden (talk) 17:16, 24 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 17:16, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
- I know. But the current title is a good deal better known, and I think appropriate under WP:COMMONNAME. By all means do a redirect, or launch an RM if you want. Note that the current "partial list" only includes sites in Jordan. Johnbod (talk) 18:36, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
@Johnbod: Sorry, the Middle East is such a disgustingly tribal place, full of provincial-minded "local patriots", that I see zero reason for giving them any ill-chosen support. But that's even secondary, since this is an objectively wrong distinction, like separating Bavarian from Suabian Baroque on the WP level. THERE IS NO SEPARATE PAGE ON "UMAYYAD DESERT CASTELS/QUSUR/QASRS", if there were one, THEN your argument would make good sense. For now, THIS IS THE ONLY SUCH PAGE, WICH MAKES IT THE RIGHT PAGE; the Jordanian d.c. should be one (major) paragraph here, but not more. Please do reconsider. I am not doing more than editing exiting articles, but then I'm trying to keep a certain level. If you do arbiter issues, then please consider going beyond the lowest common denominator. Thank you and merry Xmas! Arminden (talk) 19:13, 24 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 19:13, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
Needs to be thoroughly redone
It does contain almost everything it needs to, but most of the quoted sources are not available online (anymore?), one or two are not academic, and are quoted in a very unreliable way:
- combining two sources in one quote is not OK (Petersen plus Meyers)
- the Rough Guide is only OK if nothing better is available & is not searchable (anymore?)
- Petersen: p. 239 doesn't contain anything relevant, and p. 296 only focuses on architecture, has nothing on purpose, structures outside the main building, etc. There are PDFs available online, but I'm not sure about the copyright.
- Ettinghausen & Grabar: p. 650 also wrong (if 2nd ed., the only one accessible online)
- Meyers p. 241 prob. wrong too, I guess p. 271 was meant (judging by the few snippets accessible online)
I moved over the material "parked" at Qasr Burqu'. I don't know, maybe such large paragraphs with general info on desert castles are parked also on other individual pages from the time before this one was created. Arminden (talk) 13:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
