Talk:Elizabeth Báthory
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Untitled
Hello Orion, let's talk here. What are your concerns?
Reply here to this thread, what are your concerns? ~2025-35823-94 (talk) 16:26, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
- That section is modern historiography opinion, they assume Elizabeth had false political motivated accusations Elizabeth Báthory#Veracity of accusations
- So the "alleged" serial killer word is good, as this is not fact by modern scholarship OrionNimrod (talk) 16:31, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
- Hello Orion, thank you for coming here to the talk page. You actually said it yourself, they ASSUME that she was framed by politically motivated accusations. But look at the "Accusations", "Letters about Erzsebet", and "The Gynanaeceum" sections. There is loads of evidence provided in these sections from witness testimonies that describe who Bathory really was. Even the "Veracity of Accusations" section has first hand witnesses to her murders, read the entire section. Michael Horvath who was the Castellan of Cjesthe stated that at least seven victims were killed at her Gynanaeceum and was buried in a garden.
- Secondly, Irma-Szadecky Kardoss is the main person who argued for her innocence. But this opinion that she formed was in the 90s. Since then lots of new information about Elizabeth has come to pass. Kimberely L. Craft translated original trial testimonies and letters from Native Hungarian to English for the first time and released a few books containing these testimonies. Irma never cited the original trial testimonies. This article on Wikipedia is by far the most accurate article on the web about Elizabeth Bathory, again because it provides the real trial testimonies and not just accusations.
- Lastly, The only part of Bathory's life that is not true is the folklore aspect of her life. She never bathed in blood, drank blood, or anything like that. This was added over 100 years after her death and doesn't appear in any trial testimonies. But she did kill hundreds of young women. ~2025-35823-94 (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
- Dear Sherlock!
- That is not our task to decide which is true or not, she was a serial killer or not in 1600s. Wikipedia:No original research
- Article text clearly says, she was accused in her time, which is fact, but many modern historians have different opinion, and Wikipedia follow secondary historiography Wikipedia:No original research#Secondary which means that she was a seriel killer is questioned today, so the "alleged serial killer" is a proper term, the article text support this. OrionNimrod (talk) 21:08, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
- It is not original research, I didn't conduct the research, Kimberely L. craft conducted the research and published 3 books to the public on it. I used her books as reference, literally go to Amazon and purchase the books yourself if you're so inclined. The books are: "Infamous Lady","Infamous Lady: Second Edition", and "Letters about Erzsebet".
- Yes, historians who never cited the original trial testimonies feel like they have the right to comment on this case. No one has the right to claim they know anything about this case if they didn't even bother to cite the original trial testimonies. It is purely opinion, Wikipedia is factual and not opinion based.
- Wikipedia has a reputation to live up to and we can't just fill in the blanks with what "could be" or "might be", that is BS. Otherwise, AI will put Wikipedia 6ft below ground. It is our duty to ensure Wikipedia is factual to the best of our abilities.
- Back to this case. I actually understand this case thoroughly, as I always have had an interest in the more enigmatic figures in history. This is why in this article we made sure to dispel the blood bathing rumors, and also we did state that some scholars do argue for her innocence. We didn't leave that part out, as all perspectives should be laid out on the table. But we made sure to put the original trial testimonies in the article as well. Not one site on the entire internet bothered to list the testimonies, on their articles about Bathory.
- So with all due respect, you don't get to just change the article if you haven't even read the testimonies. Again, why hasn't Szadecky-Kardoss cited the testimonies in her work. Why is Craft the only person that has?
- Have you read the testimonies? ~2025-35823-94 (talk) 01:02, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
- IP, are you User:New millennium child who commented on previous threads? If so, please log in when you are editing.
I do not have an opinion on whether "alleged" should be included or not. However, Kardoss and the other historians cited in the article are still experts, and still have a "right to claim they know about" the case. Expert sources disagree about this. I happen to agree with you that she almost certainly committed the murders (but did not bathe in blood, etc.). Still the article currently includes, and should include opinions from other legitimate sources besides Craft.--MattMauler (talk) 14:37, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
- IP, are you User:New millennium child who commented on previous threads? If so, please log in when you are editing.
Reply
Hello MattMauler, that must have been somebody's else's account. I tried to log in here in Wikipedia, but every name I wanted to set as my username was taken. So I just gave up. Lol ~2026-10694-7 (talk) 14:43, 31 January 2026 (UTC)