Talk:Gas-operated reloading

This section is under dispute, with the claim that the lever operation is equivalent to a short stroke action:

The word "Shotgun" doesn't even appear on this page. What type of gas system does a shotgun use? I assume it counts as a long-stroke gas system, but I'm not sure. It has a ring-shaped piston that wraps around the magazine tube, and fits into a cylinder of slightly larger dimensions. It wouldn't be clear to a person looking at one that it was a form of gas operation when looking at the images that are shown on this page. AnnaGoFast (talk) 21:52, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

This page appears to be dominated by military rifle oriented editors. Search 1 Oct 2021 for "shotgun" yields no returns. Gas-operated shotguns with tube magazines present different design parameters than largely box magazine rifles.

AnnaGpFast describes a Long-stroke gas system automatic shotgun where the gas piston travels the full length of recoil with the bolt.

I have a Model 1000 gas operated shotgun made by Howa for Mossberg (and S&W). The gas piston moves a short distance and stops after imparting momentum to the sleeve, action bars, bolt base assembly that unlocks the bolt (sleeve, bars, base and bolt travel as one assembled unit). I'd call it short stroke since the gas piston pushes the bolt carrier, rather than a tappet system where a very light piston impacts the bolt carrier.

Automatic shotguns were recoil operated with moving barrels until the Winchester Model 50 of 1954, based on David Marshall Williams' "Inertia Operated Bolt Lock" that used a floating chamber within the barrel acting under gas pressure as a piston to unlock then impart momentum to the bolt, the first automatic shotgun with barrel fixed to the receiver.

Gas operated shotguns are neglected in Gas-operated reloading. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 12:08, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

This article should be under Action (firearms)Digitallymade (talk) 12:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

No, it shouldn't. --Winged Brick (talk) 21:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't entirely agree, as gas operation is notable in itself; but there is definitely a link between the topics. For example, I don't feel that semiauto is an appropriate article for the "autoloading" link in the lead section. While technically true, it's misleading, especically as there are fully automatic rifles that use gas operated actions to load themselves. Indeed, coverage of "autoloading firearms" could perhaps be added to or expanded inside Action (firearms) and the repeating action section; or maybe even form a distinct page if there are enough sources to provide notability. Techhead7890 (talk) 10:34, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Currently (as of 2025-10-03), this article describes "long-stroke gas piston" as having a piston that moves more than one piston-diameter backward under "high pressure". It defines "short-stroke" as moving less than one diameter under pressure, and says it is still short-stroke even if the piston travels several inches further, perhaps attached to the bolt itself. Both of these "definitions" are not cited and are flagged as lacking citations.

The idea that the short- vs. long-stroke distinction has anything to do with the diameter of the gas piston seems entirely alien to me, I have never read or heard that anywhere else. The idea that it has to do with distance traveled under high pressure, and thus the location of vent holes, also seems fairly weird.

Based mostly on C&Rsenal Youtube videos and written sources recommended by them, including on the M1918 BAR and the Russian SKS, I have gotten the impression that short- vs. long-stroke is very analogous to short- vs. long-recoil action, where "long" means that the piston (or barrel) travels the entire "action length", or the length traveled by the bolt face or bolt carrier, whatever reciprocates the longest distance. "Short" generally means the piston (or barrel) travels less than the full action length. This would make short-recoil and short-stroke quite strongly analogous, with one describing barrel recoil and the other describing piston movement. I have never seen piston diameter mentioned, and that would feel arbitrary and not particularly relevant to the mechanism.

However, I am not the right person to find a source about firearms design terminology in general. Fluoborate (talk) 13:48, 3 October 2025 (UTC)

I've reverted an edit adding this type because it had three sources; two US patents and a note by Armalite, whose flagship AR-15 uses that system. None of these represent significant mentions in reliable, secondary, independent sources. The patents are obviously primary and very much not independent, and the Armalite note reads more as promotional material, which is not independent. I'd also argue that because they manufacture one of the most prevalent uses of that bolt and carrier arrangement, they're effectively primary. EducatedRedneck (talk) 17:05, 18 December 2025 (UTC)