Talk:Karl Popper

The end of the introduction's second paragraph currently reads that Popper's "... political philosophy embraced ideas from major democratic political ideologies, including libertarianism/classical liberalism, socialism/social democracy and conservatism, and attempted to reconcile them."

His ideas are open to democrats of different ideological leanings, but I do not find this quote informative and not least because the article cited in support of this sentence explains how Popper's thinking is also at odds with libertarianism and conservatism, and how he moved away from socialism. Reconciling ideas from these ideologies was never an explicit aim of his, while the cited article goes on to note that his political philosophy was in fact "difficult to categorize".

The cited article notes elsewhere that "His political thought resides squarely within the camp of Enlightenment rationalism and humanism. He was a dogged opponent of totalitarianism, nationalism, fascism, romanticism, collectivism, and other kinds of (in Popper’s view) reactionary and irrational ideas." I think we could do better by replacing the final sentence of the second introduction paragraph with this quote - it is both accurate and more meaningful.

If we really want to try and tie Popper down ideologically (and I'm not saying we should) then, drawing directly from the already cited article, we could note that "Though difficult to categorize, Popper’s political thought would has been seem to fit most comfortably within the liberal camp, broadly understood, and into practice would produce a society more closely resembling the so-called have similarities with social democracies of northern Europe." The non-italicised text in this quote are words I've added - I think this quote is fair, given Popper was clearly an individualist and also complimentary of Scandinavian democracies (which I can evidence). Popper was unquestionably a humanist (because he told us) and I notice elsewhere that a humanist website notes that "Karl Popper was an outspoken advocate of social democracy and liberal causes". I think this quote is also fair and, if we really wish to try and tie Popper down ideologically, we might cite this humanist site's comment instead. Enlightenment fan (talk) 11:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree the paragraph could be better worded. My suggestion would be to keep it simple, with the same reference, like this:

Popper’s political thought would seem to fit most comfortably within the liberal camp, broadly understood. Reason, toleration, nonviolence and individual freedom formed the core of his political values, and he identified modern liberal democracies as the best-to-date embodiment of an open society. Popper himself acknowledged that his primary interest was nature and not politics.^[1]

Manbooferie (talk) 13:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Please excuse my long delay in replying.

While Popper's main academic interest was the philosophy of science, he was distinguished in this field and political philosophy. I worry therefore that the final proposed sentence, as worded, might underplay the significance of his political and ethical writing, at least in the mind of some lay readers. (E.g. influencing politics was the main not secondary purpose of his magnum opus The Open Society and Its Enemies).

Also, while Popper was sympathetic with "altruistic individualism" and eventually was drawn to freedom over equality, he never explicitly defined as a liberal, hence why I can understand others have been hesitant to explicitly label him one. Drawing on the two already mentioned websites (the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy + Humanists UK), I would suggest changing the last two sentences of the second opening paragraph to something like:

"His political thought resides squarely within the camp of Enlightenment rationalism and humanism. He was a dogged opponent of totalitarianism, nationalism, fascism, romanticism, collectivism, and other kinds of (in Popper’s view) reactionary and irrational ideas.[3] He was an outspoken advocate of social democratic and liberal causes.[new 4]: Enlightenment fan (talk) 09:32, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Or perhaps:

"His political thought resides squarely within the camp of Enlightenment rationalism and humanism. He was a dogged opponent of totalitarianism, nationalism, fascism, romanticism, collectivism, and other kinds of (in Popper’s view) reactionary and irrational ideas.[3] He identified modern liberal democracies as the best-to-date embodiment of an open society; and was an outspoken advocate of social democratic and liberal causes.[new 4]" Enlightenment fan (talk) 09:41, 12 October 2024 (UTC)