Talk:Kenny G

The original overview of the criticism paragraph was unsupported and so it was rephrased to match the critical material. The orignal was, "While Kenny G's entry into the smooth jazz market remains popular with the American buying public, he has come under fire from music critics and jazz devotées, leading him to be described as "the musician many jazz listeners love to hate." The phrase, "under fire from music critics and jazz devotees" did not match up to the actual criticism as only two jazz guitarists and the lyrics of a hip hop artist were quoted. In fact, I would suggest removing the entire paragraph because the individuals making the criticism are neither noted music critics, nor are they peers in the sense of being saxophone players. What do others think? The so called criticism from "Mos Def" in the form of a lyric from one of his songs was moved to popular culture. 24.27.200.205 23:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Kenny G, aka Kenny Gorlick appeared on the 1980 Lp by The Jeff Lorber Fusion "Wizard Island". He played flute, tenor and soprano sax. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.36.57 (talk) 02:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but if you want it to go in the article you'll need to find a source for it I'm afraid. Cheers, -Panser Born- (talk) 08:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do people hate him? He has beautiful music. -Yancyfry

I must admit I liked him in the mid-80s to early 90s. Still I can kind of see disliking him. Although songs like Songbird are pretty a problem is that all his stuff starts kind of sounding the same after awhile. That's sort of a general criticism applied to most Easy listening or New Age musicians.--T. Anthony 20:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course most rap sounds the same. -Yancyfry

Please refrain from discussing anything other than changes to the article here. This talk page is not the place for critiquing Kenny G's work (or anyone else's, for that matter). -Panser Born- (talk) 08:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful idea!! Why not leave out all criticism of Kenny G, notwithstanding the fact that he is well-known to be loathed by 99.99999999999999% of real jazz musicians on the planet. Good Christ!! Besides, if you actually wanted to make this into a Good article or higher (which I think is not possible, speaking as someone who has worked on 5 FAs and many GAs), you would be required to include extensive criticism. I do this with scientists and philosophers; I cannot imagine that no criticism of an artist can be found anywhere. Oh, the wacki Wiki!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Francesco Franco 09:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What makes a "real" jazz musician? Sounds like a bunch of less successful musicians sour graping because they cannot sell as well. The entire article seems to have an undercurrent of hostility slanted towards criticizing Kenny G. For example not making the band on his first try, the emphasis on golf, the accounting major he was taking on the side, etc. Is it being implied he's not a "real" musician because he doesn't come from a musical family, doesn't devote himself entirely to his music, and didn't drop out of school to pursue this interest?

To answer the question of what makes a "real" jazz musician-there can only be one reply: If you have to ask that question, then it would behoove you to take some time and research the subject of jazz. However, it can definately be said that becoming a jazz musician has nothing to do with what family you come from, whether or not you devote your entire time to music (i.e. Branford Marsalis hates practicing, unlike his brother Wynton, who practices everyday at 4:00 a.m. for 3 hours) or whether you drop out of school to pursue the artform. There are many elements that make up a jazz muscian, but for me communicating musical ideas through improvisation, use of harmony, interpretation of melody and lyrics, and the ability to tell a story are the things that I think about concerning jazz. Try using this site as a point of reference on jazz. Of course, you cannot use it as your only source, as there are so many books on the jazz idiom. Better yet, go and get your Kenny G recordings, listen them. Then go out and purchase the "Love Supreme" or "My Favorite Things" CD's by John Coltrane. Then evaluate the differences that you hear.

I would not insist that there are no jazz players that are jealous of Kenny's sucess; that fact is neither here nor there. The point is that given the genius of a John Coltrane or a Wayne Shorter (not to mention, all the other instrumentalists who came before him), his music should not exalted as being one having any real kind musical depth or intelligenc that is usually experienced when one listens to a great jazz player or vocalist. It simply is a tool, used to entertain the massess. I would have the utmost respect for Kenny if he were to say as such. It is simular to an entertainer like a Jennifer Lopez, whose forte' is dance but calls herself a vocalist because she "sings". She may like to sing as a tool of her act, however it does not make her a vocalist in any sense of the word. 162.115.108.124 18:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Lisa, September 28, 2007162.115.108.124 18:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

By all means let's have extensive criticism of his musicianship. If his skills as a saxophonist are poor that's fair game but on the other hand if he is also a composer of his own music that deserves mention as well. Currently it says "many people" are critical of his abilities but only one source is primarily used to back the assertion.

I think the entire "What a Wonderful World" controversy deserves its own section if it's taking up half the Career section. Moreover is it really a criticism of his music? Does it belong in a Music Criticism section? Why? Also who is saying Louis Armstrong overdubbed in the performance? Armstrong was dubbed into the performance but whether it was overdubbed or not is a subjective call. Should Natalie Cole performing with her father or Celine Dion performing with Elvis arouse the same ire?

Edit: My apologies it seems overdubbing is a technical term and not as I had first interpreted it used in the sense of being overdone. But that makes me wonder even more what the gist of the complaint is. It seems essentially that the ire is there because "he trespassed on hallowed ground". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.91.114 (talk) 13:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think an entire section for criticism is necessary. Yet, I won't argue against it. However, the paragraph that is in the career section is appropriate because his decision to use Armstrong's recording is a career move. - Steve3849 ^talk 14:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to see the Musical Criticism back in. This is clearly significant, and NPOV requires that all significant viewpoints be represented. Dlabtot 21:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The quotes in this article are fantastic. IMO a very important part of Kenny G is his campiness. In fact, all fellow musicians I've known writhe in pain when a Kenny G song comes up. Sure, it's an opinion (like "Christina Aguilera is not a talented singer"), but being such a frequently-used measuring stick of lameness is very notable. When someone compares my playing to Kenny G, I can read this article and know it was most likely an insult. NorrYtt (talk) 10:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I, amongst many others, am outraged by the fact that many people who edit this page prefer not to include the section about Kenny G's musical criticism. I personally know many devoted listeners to jazz as well as a number of professional jazz musicians, all of whom offer negative criticism of Kenny G's music and emphasize the man's negligible contribution to modern improvised music (which, in the case of musicians who correctly categorize themselves as jazz, would not be described as such).

As for the first paragraph of this section, the author is quite wrong in saying that the claims in this section are not supported by reputable jazz critics. Pat Metheny alone is one of the world's most knowledgeable musicians in terms of harmony and melody - particularly in the field of jazz - and is regarded by most active jazz listeners as one of the most reputable critics out there. Therefore I believe that there are significant grounds for a paragraph under this heading to be included in the main article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.85.87 (talk) 13:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Even outside jazz musician circles, Kenny G is widely used as an example of terrible, unlistenable music in pop culture. Surely some mention of this should be made. To most Americans at least, Kenny G is known more for this than for anything else. Conical Johnson (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

You read my mind. The fact this article mentions not a word of Kenny G's suckiness and cheesyness is ridiculous, since it exactly these attributes which make Kenny G notable-- bad music and a bad hairdo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.147.96 (talk) 05:37, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

To me it is not a matter of neutrality but historical record and for wikipedia to be a true historical record, I believe the criticisms section must return. These criticisms are supported by the jazz community as evidenced by the quotes from Pat Metheny and the users of this forum. If a master composer such as Mozart was reviled in his time, isn't that relevant to how people react to his music now?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.226.27 (talk) 02:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Incredible! Not one word of criticism in the article about a musician who has received more than his fair share. Here's Pat Metheny on Kenny G: and Richard Thompson in song form for starters, and there's shedloads of this stuff out there. This article seriously suffers from POV as it is no doubt patrolled by Kenny G's fans who remove anything they don't like. 81.157.194.236 (talk) 11:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Re "Incredible! Not one word of criticism in the article about a musician who has received more than his fair share." - Please see the following excerpt from the 5th paragraph of the section Career, which was in the article at the time of the above message as it is now.

"Kenny G's 1999 single, "What A Wonderful World" was criticized regarding the overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's classic recording. A criticism was that a revered recording by an artist such as Armstrong known especially for improvisation should not be altered^[1][2] and especially not by a musician such as Kenny G whose contributions to jazz were already in question.^[3][4]"

--Bob K31416 (talk) 14:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I honestly believe that there should be a section titled "Criticism" that simply outlines the very well known and very widely understood belief that Kenny G is considered a "sell out", and very poor when it comes to actual musical ability when compared against most Jazz musicians. To leave out this section is a blaring omission of valuable information, and comes across as very suspicious. There are many artists who have sections like this included, who are far less criticized than Kenny G. There is no counter argument to this, the section should be reinstated, someone put it back in please, now. Manachi (talk) 10:40, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I've reintroduced a paragraph regarding this part of music history. It has plenty of useable references and I've also tried to keep it neutral. The topic was quite inflamed at the time and you'll see some of the references are more recent. The debate wasn't forgotten as the track was re-released. It is both a noteworthy moment of his career and noteworthy of modern recorded music in general. - Steve3849 ^talk 09:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I have cut down the overlarge quote by Pat Metheny. If people want to read the whole profanity-laced thing they have only to click the reference. The first couple sentences get the point across. Diagonalfish (talk) 19:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Is it true that he wrote the Mario music? Can we add more on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickmanning214 (talk • contribs) 17:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what Mario music you're speaking of. I personally have never heard of Kenny G having anything to do with music for video games. Most of the Mario 64 soundtrack was written by Koji Kondo. I'm sure you can find the directors of the other tracks on here somewhere. Still, I don't think he's anything to do with Mario. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.197.87 (talk) 04:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

"Kenny G. Blows" as a reference to the Guinness Book of Records thing, which sounds pretty impossible... vandalism? -- Y not? 04:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually the article title is Kenny G Blows, check out the reference. Nil Einne (talk) 16:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Would be nice to fix the birthdate of the kids instead of age whatever, which happens to change annually. Birthdate kind of stay the same, unless they became actors. :-) --grin ✎ 13:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Going Home is even used by Chinese local governments, as its often played in 'public' parks (which are gated and ticketed often). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LlYiWbeK18

Is he the same man as weird al yankovich?

Certainly not. For a start, there is neither a recording nor a verifiable claim of K.G. playing the banjo, or performing humorously satirical covers of popular songs... at least, not deliberately. They do have something in common, though. Despite not being virtuoso saxophonists, both do have curly hair.2600:1700:EA01:1090:5892:B30E:6D4E:2005 (talk) 02:49, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

In a performance first aired on 12/21/08 titled Kenny G: An Evening of Rhythm and Romance Kenny G demonstrated how he can play a continuous note almost indefinitely. He has the ability to inhale through his nose while playing a note on the sax with his mouth. In this performance he demonstrated this technique while he played a note for just less than one minute. During that 58 seconds he inhaled through his nose about 17 times with his nose next to a microphone so the inhaled breathes could be detected by the audience. Schlif (talk) 05:22, 28 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schlif (talk • contribs) 05:17, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The technique is called circular breathing where the player sustains a pitch by forcing the diaphram to "push" unused air outward after the air in the lungs is exhausted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.115.108.103 (talk) 19:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is called circular breathing, but your explanation makes no sense (and isn't "circular"). Circular breathing involves playing normally while also filling the cheeks with air. Then, when air in the lungs runs low, forcing air out of the mouth with the cheeks while inhaling through the nose. - SummerPhD (talk) 05:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Circular breathing is explained here. It wasn't invented by nor is it unique to Kenny G. Jeisenberg (talk) 16:42, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Seriously? That's the best we have? I know all about our image policies, but this is crap. - SummerPhD (talk) 05:03, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

A few possibilities for comment: A, B, C. Obviously, we can crop/clean them up. Thoughts? - SummerPhD (talk) 05:11, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

A is good because it shows his face and shows him in performance. B is a bad angle. C shows a nice front view but it looks like it's posed at an event; in any case, A looks more like a "real" performance. Do you have the rights on those? Jeisenberg (talk) 16:56, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any discussion here about the origin of his stage name. It obviously ties to his first and last names, but that doesn't mean the stage name arose spontaneously out of those. Is there any connection to "Daddy G," a name some attribute to composer and sax player Gene Barge (e.g., http://www.mp3lyrics.org/g/gary-us-bonds/quarter-to-three/). However, per the Gene Barge article, the name Daddy G ties to the titles of two songs he wrote (and lyrics, for example in Quarter to Three, that refer to the sax player as "Daddy 'G'"), and a possible yet not entirely clear tie to Bishop "Daddy" Grace at a church that ties to Barge's group's name. Anyway, the point here is whether there is any information on the origin of Kenny G's stage name. Jeisenberg (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

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Kenny G no longer holds the Guinness World Record for the longest saxophone note held. Vann Burchfield holds that title.

Alex Yuwen (talk) 03:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. mabdul 20:38, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

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Please add the following fact under the section "Personal life" Kenny G's Height: 5'4" Kenny G stated this fact to the audience on December 19, 2012 in Detroit Michigan at the Detroit Symphony Orchestra (DSO) hall. I was at this event, it was a full house Michigangr (talk) 14:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. "I was there and I know it to be true" is not a reliable source; it is original research. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

, , , , , , , , , . 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 18:56, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

These sources prove the opposite of your assertion. They all refer to Kenny G as a "Saxophonist"-which is what is in the article. 41.76.66.11 (talk) 12:59, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I am not positing that every source says Kenny G is "smooth jazz", although "saxophonist" is not a genre. Fact is many reliable sources (not one, not two, but many, many, and what I presented was just a tiny fraction of sources identifying him as such) consider him, fair or not, correct or not, the seminal example of "smooth jazz", and it should therefore be included in the genre. I don't believe it should be the only identifier, as many other sources identify him as "pop", which I am more personally in agreement with, but my personal opinions shouldn't matter, the sources should. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 13:21, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

• Full disclosure* The preceding remarks from an IP address are mine. I had forgotten to log in when I wrote them. My apologies for that DanJazzy (talk) 13:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

It would appear that there are sources that are for and others against the motion at hand. This means we should consider which sources are more reliable for use in the article. Going by the lack of consensus in the previous discussion on the same issue, I suggest you consider other solutions using Wiki instruments; WP:THIRDOPINION WP:RSN WP:RFC DanJazzy (talk) 13:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

That is a reasonable approach, but not a complete one. First, the genre designation is mostly the opinion of the individual reviewer, and getting two independent-thinking music critics to completely agree would cause the world to end. Second, I don't see the need to list just a single genre. Since there are multiple multiples of reliable sources who describe him as "smooth jazz" or "adult contemporary" (pop) or to a lesser degree "easy listening", it is reasonable to list these in the genre field in the infobox. Theoretically there may be a reliable source listing him as bluegrass (by way of absurd example), but there wouldn't be multiple reliable sources saying such, so it would therefore be reasonable to exclude the exception to the norm. By the sources, the preponderance of genres he is listed as are those currently listed in the infobox, so it is my !vote (not that we're having one) to leave "smooth jazz" there. What I think you could do, though, is create a section in the article body perhaps named "style" which dispassionately discusses the various views regarding his placement on the musical spectrum. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 14:37, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Smooth jazz definitely belongs in the infobox, because there are plenty of reliable sources that state Kenny G is a smooth jazz musician. Whether or not smooth jazz is a valid jazz genre or not is a valid and active debate, but it isn't relevant to its inclusion or exclusion in the infobox, therefore I think it should stay. ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 15:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree with this. It's not like this is is undue emphasis or a fringe opinion. Multiple, high quality sources have identified him thus. We don't need unanimity in order to label something. If there's a controversy, it can be sourced and discussed in the article. It should not spill over into the infobox. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:12, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

• Keep smooth jazz - Multiple reliable sources refer to his music as smooth jazz and have for many, many years. I fail to see how this could be a controversy. (It's not like we're writing about his religion and he needs to personally verify it.) —Мандичка^YO 😜 13:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

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In the Career section under 1990's, the last sentence of the first paragraph reads, "His music were also included in The Shadow, or Miracle on 34th Street." To make this more grammatically correct, the "were" should be changed to "was", and the "or" should be changed to "and".

It should read, "His music was also included in The Shadow, and Miracle on 34th Street."

 Done Thank you! 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 07:18, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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Please add Kenny's Phi Beta Kappa membership to this article,^[1]

Amandapbk (talk) 18:29, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians.

Does anybody know the original publish date of this article? I need it for my project. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.239.82.20 (talk) 13:22, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

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Kenny G doesn't play the flute; he plays soprano, alto and tenor saxophones 2601:580:C180:22D0:44CC:7D37:C786:7E4D (talk) 23:31, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 23:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Reverted. He played flute in his first band, the Seattle funksters Cold, Bold & Together during the years 1975 and 1976. Binksternet (talk) 01:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

"Critic Josef Woodard found Kenny G serving ‘a noble purpose by offering musicians a paradigm of what not to do’ in a JazzTimes poll in which, though, players such as Stan Kenton, Maynard Ferguson, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and Ornette Coleman were characterized as ‘overrated’."

I wanted to rewrite this just because it's rather clunky and confusing but I decided to just say something here first. Who was the one taking part in the poll? It's a bit confusing as to whether Woodard was the one being polled or if Kenny G was taking part in a poll and Woodard was saying his response is an example of what not to do. (I read the article and yes, it was Woodard taking part in the poll, but I had a moment upon first reading that sentence when that wasn't entirely clear.)

The way "though" is used in the middle of that sentence, it seems to be setting it up to be followed by a contrasting statement that never comes. "Though", when used like this, reads like "on the one hand." Using "although" instead would clear that up.

Finally; although Kenton, Ferguson, Davis, Coltrane, and Coleman are mentioned in the article as "overrated", none of them were mentioned by Woodard. In fact, all five were listed as "overrated" by the next critic in the article, Jack Sohmer. The way it's written can lead one to think that came from Woodard. (This is one of those cases where I think grammarians are right to be warry about using the passive voice.)

Anyway, clunky, unclear, and thought it could use a rewrite. But what do others think? Beetfarm Louie (talk) 15:22, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

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Remove "flute" as Kenny G doesn't play such an instrument. 2601:580:C100:7BD0:4973:FFC8:E409:3F44 (talk) 00:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

He played flute and sax in his first band, the Cold, Bold & Together during 1975–1976. Binksternet (talk) 00:33, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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Kenny G doesn't play the flute. Please remove "flute", as he doesn't play one. 2601:580:C100:7BD0:E8E4:BB76:8B46:C17C (talk) 00:39, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: - see section above. GoingBatty (talk) 16:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

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Remove "flute" in instruments 2601:580:C100:7BD0:ACF4:2F89:7647:AE7D (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. Why would we remove flute? He joined Cold, Bold & Together as the flute/sax player in 1975. The band released a single in 1976 that credits Kenny Gorelick with sax and flute. Binksternet (talk) 17:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)