Talk:Luke Littler

2018 was the last year of the UK Open qualifiers. Having it in the infobox is likely to cause confusion as this is not the same tournament that MVG, Simon Whitlock and Corey Cadby won. I think t Littler won a pub qualifier and they are not usually included in the infobox. (78.19.44.17 (talk) 15:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC))

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

He is now ranked number 9 86.6.106.157 (talk) 04:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SSSB (talk) 11:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Are we going to put everyone Luke dates in the article? According to the sources they are in the early stages of their relationship. (Fran Bosh (talk) 16:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC))

That seems to be par for the course for many celebrity articles, if it's reported by multiple WP:RS sources? But exactly how many are you expecting? I guess there would be far less reporting if Milburn wasn't five years his senior. This seems to be the issue of media focus. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Controversy over his age should feature. I am in the sceptical group, inclined not to believe it. 77.100.178.145 (talk) 00:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Not sure there's any "controversy". As in any sport, competitive darts requires competitors' ages to be rigorously attested. It's not his fault that he looks about 30. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:29, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, there is no reliable source which questions his age - if I'm wrong, please feel free to add it. At the same time, I have twice removed the exact number of days, as I think this level of detail is excessive. We already have the actual day included in the article, anyway... GnocchiFan (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Martinevans123:, regarding this - I'm not disputing the calculation, but I don't see why we should include days in the article prose for people above the age of 1 year. My removal is for the same reason we don't routinely include days and months in most biographies on Wikipedia, especially for BLPs. It doesn't seem very standard and I think consensus should be sought here. GnocchiFan (talk) 23:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello GnocchiFan. Thanks for raising this question here. I guess the point of including the days is to show he was nearly 17. It's not that important. Perhaps a footnote might be appropriate. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I think deciding to split the Premier League Darts into its own sub-heading under 2024 will stop the clashing with other tournament information or stuff that has happened during his darts career in 2024. It helps people who read the article get the information they need straightforwardly. I hope this was a nice edition, especially after this being the only tournament that runs through loads of other tournaments on the PDC calendar.

Kind regards, GalacticalCosmics (talk) 21:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Never hear or see anything about his family. Can someone elaborate on it?? 2406:2D40:41AE:4A00:D401:3528:B004:DEA2 (talk) 23:05, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

This Sun article mentions them.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25179172/luke-littler-parents-anthony-lisa-bates/

Ive seen his mum in the crowd at matches. I don’t think it’s that relevant to be honest. 86.23.141.107 (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

There's this, which discusses it a bit and is more reliable than the deprecated Sun. Though also not sure about how relevant this is to the article. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 14:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

In the personal information box, it says he was born in Warrington and his home town is Runcorn but the text says the opposite. His home town is definitely Warrington. He moved there as a small child and the school he attended is in the Warrington area. 86.23.141.107 (talk) 09:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Multiple sources and publications state that Littler was born in Runcorn and later moved to Warrington. See This Article for example. wafflerrs ^talk! 22:33, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The one that is cited in early life shows his birth certificate, stating he was born in Warrington, the Borough of Warrington. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:34, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Metro isn't a reliable source, and should be removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

ITV Sport stated that he is from Warrington https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2024-01-04/luke-littler-i-cant-wait-to-get-back-to-my-xbox JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

From doesn't mean he was born there. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

A number of tabloid sources (so no use to us) have printed an image of his birth certificate, which says he was born here. Black Kite (talk) 22:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The two sources I found regarding that image simply source it coming from "someone on Twitter". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:46, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

'From' references his home town of Warrington, not his birthplace wafflerrs ^talk! 22:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Do you know where TalkSPORT are getting that info from and how reliable they are for this? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:42, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

We should probably trust the Independent Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, WP:THEINDEPENDENT lists them as considered a reliable source for non-specialist information. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Indeed. Unless there are some RS that actually do say that he was born in Warrington, we should state Runcorn and use at least this one citation. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski Well, Marca is also a reliable source - . Are we suggesting that the image of the birth certificate is faked? Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Marca cites a tweet from TalkTV. Is there an established view on Wikipedia of the reliability of TalkTV? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:53, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

My personal opinion of TalkTV is that they are far-right wing in political orientation and often produce unreliable information to sell their narrative. wafflerrs ^talk! 22:54, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll just point out that Warrington Hospital is the nearest maternity hospital to Runcorn. If he was born in a hospital to parents who lived in Runcorn he would probably have been born in Warrington. Are we genuinely saying that multiple outlets - even if they aren't the best sources - are going to forge someone's birth certificate? That's ... a bit silly. Black Kite (talk) 22:56, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Didn't say that it was necessarily forged, just commented about the general reliability of TalkTV, however all the images of the birth certificate originate from one tweet from TalkTV here - seeing as this has come from a single source, I don't think this is particularly reliable, especially as these things can be easily faked nowadays. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

To make things more confusing, the birth certificate is missing the reference number in the top right hand corner, suggesting that this is not legitimate. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:04, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, the reference number has been redacted... using an AI regenerative background thing, or similar, like the AI generative fill available in Photoshop. This means that the certificate has been altered digitally in some form. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't think we've ever discussed it. I don't know why someone would make up him being born in Runcorn. However, as there are sources both ways, I suggest a note stating it's unconfirmed in the infobox and use both cites (unless we have a consensus either way).

To make things a bit more confusing, as far as I can tell, hospitals in Warrington and Runcorn are part of the "Warrington & Halton Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust", so that might be where the confusion is. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, but the maternity hospital is in Warrington. I think the Independent and others are confusing the fact that his parents lived in Runcorn when he was born, with where he was actually born. Let's not forget that they got hold of the birth certificate to prove his age, not his place of birth. Black Kite (talk) 23:05, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I would suggest a note on the claim (of him being born in Warrington) with something like "some sources state Littler was born in Runcorn". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. No doubt we'll get a better source at some point now he's won the world title. Black Kite (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

This seems like a reasonable middle ground due to conflicting sources and. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

We don’t need to remove his birth date. That is covered as 21 January 2007 by reliable perennial sources such as the Guardian and Sky News. JamesVilla44 (talk) 23:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

A third party editor not involved in this discussion removed the birthdate. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Warrington Guardian – a local paper closely affiliated with Littler – responded to comments regarding his birthplace on Facebook with the following:

"To clarify: Luke was born in Warrington Hospital Maternity Unit, lived in Runcorn until he was six, then moved to Padgate*, attended Brook Acre Community Primary School and then Padgate Academy, started attending St Helens Darts Academy aged nine, moved with his family to Appleton this year"

• Padgate being an area of Warrington

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18XmTYrGv4/ 86.29.207.75 (talk) 03:02, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

just adding this recent BBC article to this discussion

"Littler, who was born in Warrington and moved back to the town when he was six years old, attended Padgate Academy." Greenflipper (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Pinging @Lee Vilenski and @Wafflerrs to evaluate JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:03, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

ESPN, the Warrington Guardian and the Runcorn & Widnes World all state that Littler was born at Warrington Hospital, so I'm going to add this to the article unless anyone has any objections. Greenflipper (talk) 19:22, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

I agree with this wafflerrs ^talk! 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The big thing of course is to avoid an edit war, which definitely has the potential to occur if we don’t manage to come to a consensus on it JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I think this is probably the longest Infobox I've ever seen. Can we do some culling? Do we need to list every youth title they've ever won? Do we need a bulleted list as a summary of his career - that's what the lede is for. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Could probably cut it down to the PDC World Youth Championship, JDC World Championship, 2023 Development Tour, the World Youth Masters and the JDC Super 16, and the ones that have articles of their own, as they are the most notable and significant in terms of coverage. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I think the article in general suffers from bloat. I get that this subject hasn't had a long career (but, clearly successful), but coverage of basically every match from every tournament is overkill. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

If we clear out a chunk of the clutter, this is a good step towards achieving good article status. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:21, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Wafflerrs @Lee Vilenski do you think the {|{Summarize section}} tag can be removed now JamesVilla44 (talk) 23:49, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, great job! wafflerrs ^talk! 00:17, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Fellow darts-player Phil Taylor (darts player) is probably the longest infobox on Wikipedia. This one is also far too long, and should be culled. 217.180.214.53 (talk) 03:54, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

"Do we need a bulleted list as a summary of his career - that's what the lede is for."

Do you think what I’ve done is an improvement? JamesVilla44 (talk) 00:12, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

@Sisao25 I refer you to this from a Wikipedia admin DartsF4 (talk) 01:05, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I am afraid you are just wrong. wdf titles have alwas been professional events and you can check tha out. Littler won 6 of them as has 25 professional titles in his career. Sisao25 (talk) 01:11, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Littler has more than 6 WDF Titles DartsF4 (talk) 01:21, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Moving the discussion in Infobox to here as the Summarise Section tag was added again.

I attempted a trim of the section just now. I feel like even after it was originally shortened it was bloated with lots of statistics about three-dart and nine-dart average that, while certainly high-standard and impressive (and cool), should not really be mentioned unless it was a reported broken record or in a final, with even the latter being a massive stretch. I also removed mentions of Littler receiving special pins for nine-darters, everyone gets those. Still needs some work I think. Greenflipper (talk) 21:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree. I think you've done well, but there's more culling required. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

How about now? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@ItsKesha given you put the tag in, what do you think? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski@Greenflipper JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Ok, I've done some more summarising. I think if we simplified the Premier League Darts section to simply "Littler won three nights and his first title" or similar, the section will be grand.

We don't need all the info on how he got on in every event. Maybe for a player who won significantly less. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:00, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm fine with this version Greenflipper (talk) 23:16, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Premier League section good now? JamesVilla44 (talk) 23:30, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Anyone else feel like this is quite excessive now? I feel like splitting off some information into a different new section would help clean it up. Greenflipper (talk) 14:14, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Like “Luke Littler in popular culture”? JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:15, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

That's kind of what I had in mind, don't know how much of it would constitute as "popular culture" though. Something like "Media appearances" maybe. I feel like his impact on darts itself could also be its own section if there's enough material. Greenflipper (talk) 14:18, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

The Bullseye Christmas special, Jonathan Ross, and reasoning he chose Greenlight would definitely go in there.

A League of their Own, Fantasy Football League and Michael McIntyre’s Big Show would need to be evaluated for notability, importance and impact to decide how their inclusion would be best done. JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:25, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

On the impact on darts itself. There is first the issue of naming it. We currently use “Littlermania” (dubbed by Barry Hearn), but the Littler effect is used more widely (BBC, The Independent, The Times, Irish Times, Daily Record, Sky Sports among others.) JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:30, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Both could be stated Greenflipper (talk) 14:35, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@Greenflipper I’m going to ask you to mediate between me and @Sisao25 on what we should include in the infobox, lead and titles section.

Sisao doesn’t seem willing to compromise despite my attempts to, so a third party will have to decide. I would also invite other darts editors to get involved in this so we can come to a consensus DartsF4 (talk) 01:18, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Wow OK this is a lot of text

Could we not compromise and just say total of [blank] PDC titles, as well as [blank] senior World Darts Federation titles? Greenflipper (talk) 17:40, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I tried that here but was reverted DartsF4 (talk) 17:46, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Yeah I don't see the issue with that, BDO/WDF events certainly aren't at the same stature as they used to be Greenflipper (talk) 17:52, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Sisao insists we include his 7 WDF ranking titles in the infobox, and removed every title in the former titles section that was then in the infobox. Sisao seemed to want the titles section to be only youth titles (but including the MODUS Super Series as a youth title).

We have had an IP user comment on this talk page "This [infobox] is far too long, and should be culled."

and an administrator comment "I think this is probably the longest Infobox I've ever seen. Can we do some culling?" "Do we need a bulleted list as a summary of his career - that's what the lede is for." DartsF4 (talk) 18:05, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Any attempt to make the infobox longer should be discouraged Greenflipper (talk) 18:11, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Well Sisao decided to revert every single one of my edits DartsF4 (talk) 10:35, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

My concern here is that Sisao's version of the lead could mislead the reader, which is something that should be avoided. As I say in my edit summary, we must be clear about what titles we’re referring to, so PDC titles won in his professional career and not before, and ranking WDF titles.

Which is 19 PDC titles (4 Euro Tour, 4 PCs, 4 World Series, 7 premier events) and 7 WDF ranking titles (2 Gold, 4 Silver, 1 Bronze). DartsF4 (talk) 10:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Sisao - "no one has a problem with it bar you"

Greenflipper or any other darts editors who want to voice their opinion, do you have any problems with this:

"He has won a total of 19 PDC titles and overall he has won 26 professional titles in his career." DartsF4 (talk) 12:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

I think that not mentioning that they’re WDF titles and just saying "overall he has won 26 professional titles in his career." is WP:UNDUE DartsF4 (talk) 12:12, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Sisao's doing it again, doesn’t seem to care what WP:UNDUE says at all. DartsF4 (talk) 14:53, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

@Nigej sorry mate, did I see somewhere we were gonna do an SPI? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

compromise to what ? you are claiming WDF titles are not professional which the have been since he dawning of time. The page is correct now. regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Sisao I would like you to explain your other actions, like reverting edits completely unrelated to WDF titles at all. DartsF4 (talk) 01:31, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Please elaborate ?  Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Sisao, has Luke Littler not won 7 WDF ranking titles not 6.

Mastercaller list the following 7

British Classic Men 2023, British Open Men 2023, Gibraltar Open Men 2023, Irish Open Men 2021, Isle of Man Classic Men, 2023 Romanian Classic Men, 2022 Welsh Open Men.

I’m wondering why you exclude the Gibraltar Open in your count DartsF4 (talk) 01:39, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

You claim he never won the 2022 England Classic Youth for example when Mastercaller has a page for the tournament listing Littler as the winner 5–4 in the final. As does the WDF. DartsF4 (talk) 01:33, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

The page is not about what you or I want. It’s about what consensus dictates should be there DartsF4 (talk) 12:07, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

I went on to the england classic page here on wikipedia and there was no mention of a boys or youths tournament so i thought that was added in error ok ? honest mistake there no doubt

 Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Ok, so you didn’t research the sources for the page. Given Mastercaller lists the Gibraltar Open as one of 7 WDF ranking titles won by Luke Littler. Do you now consider him to have won 7 WDF ranking titles. DartsF4 (talk) 01:44, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

who is mastercaller ? is there a wikipedia page for the gibraltar open 2023 event ? if you have a link to say he has won 7 wdf titles i will add it no problem ok ?  Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

So we’re agreed Littler won 7 WDF ranking mens' titles yeah? DartsF4 (talk) 01:57, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Littler page on WDF website, Littler page on Mastercaller, Littler page on Target Darts, DartsNews article on Littler's Gibraltar wins DartsF4 (talk) 01:53, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

yeah but littler does not have any win on that Gibraltar open that you added, so where is it ? that looks like the wrong event you added  Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I think the Gibraltar Open page lists the wrong winner for 2023, as Littler is listed by most as winning it that year. DartsF4 (talk) 02:06, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

he is not down as winning the youth event either that year, can you just leave the 26 career titles listed in the lead it is easy to understand what he has won as a pro then ok — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisao25 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

26 titles in his professional career is incorrect though. The lead should not mislead readers of the article's subject.

Littler’s professional career is regarded as starting in 2024. We don’t include titles won before that date as titles won in his professional career. DartsF4 (talk) 02:15, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I don’t think post 2022 WDF titles are leadworthy for players such as Luke Littler,

WP:LEAD#Relative emphasis reads as follows:

"According to the policy on due weight, emphasis given to material should reflect its relative importance to the subject, according to published reliable sources. This is true for both the lead section and the body of the article. If there is a difference in emphasis between the two, editors should seek to resolve the discrepancy. Significant information should not appear in the lead, apart from basic facts, if it is not covered in the remainder of the article, although not everything in the lead must be repeated in the body of the text. Exceptions include specific facts such as quotations, examples, birth dates, taxonomic names and typological classifications, case numbers, and titles. This admonition should not be taken as a reason to exclude information from the lead, but rather to harmonize coverage in the lead with material in the body of the article."

I believe Littler's WDF titles should be included in the body only, as including them in the lead gives undue weight to them with regards to Littler's career. DartsF4 (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

@Greenflipper I don’t know where you'd insert PC32 in or how you’d word it considering it was 2 days after the World Youth.

Here are some non-PDC sources for it, which do you think would be most suitable

1. For 2025 PC32, 2. For the Littler article, 3. For Dennie Olde Kalter and if applicable 4. For Jermaine Wattimena, if we mention the PC32 semi-final a day after the PC31 win.

Sky Sports ESPN BBC Independent DartsF4 (talk) 19:41, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

Added it on to the end. The 2025 section will probably go through some summarising once the year is complete Greenflipper (talk) 20:27, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

~2025-33742-57 (talk) 15:56, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. NotJamestack (talk) 16:01, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

He's now World Number One

His Saudi masters win needs adding to his career titles page and his total PDC titles count needs changing to 23 ~2026-50577-1 (talk) 16:45, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Done! Greenflipper (talk) 17:11, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Can the 2026 season rows be added to his Premier League season results, European Tour results and Players Championship results? (Under Performance Timeline). ~2026-14807-30 (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Added Premier League and Euro Tour, he hasn't played in a Players Championship yet so I just left it Greenflipper (talk) 22:59, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In pop culture section, change "In March 2024, he made an appearance on the 232nd episode of The Jonathan Ross Show alongside Rob Beckett, Millie Bobby Brown, Liam Gallagher, Raye, and John Squire." to "In March 2024, he made an appearance on the 232nd episode of The Jonathan Ross Show alongside Rob Beckett, Millie Bobby Brown and Raye" as liam gallagher and john squire is not present when Littler is in the show.

Check : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIH9wgAjDEc Multrawen (talk) 19:37, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

Done DartsF4 (talk) 19:47, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

>> Born and raised in Warrington, Littler began playing darts at 18 months old <<

most kids that age can't really stand in a stable and prolonged way at that age, and he already "played" darts? I doubt that very much, and there are no refs for that statement either. He might have started suckling on dart arrows that age (but then again, which parent would allow such thing, those things are sharp and pointy), and he'll probably be the greatest player of this century, but I'm having a hard time to believe that... ~2026-34146-70 (talk) 22:43, 28 July 2026 (UTC)

It's mentioned and cited in the 'Early life' section, but I think it's probably too hyperbolic to be in the lead. Removing. Greenflipper (talk) 23:56, 28 July 2026 (UTC)