Talk:Materialism

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 16:18, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

• Materialism → Materialism (philosophy)
• Materialism (disambiguation) → Materialism

– There is WP:NOPRIMARY between dialectical materialism, historical materialism, materialism and Economic materialism by pageviews or longterm significance. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:39, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Strong oppose - as the metaphysical position from which all of dialectical/historical/"Economic" materialism derive their names, the (far older) philosophical conception of materialism is certainly primary in terms of longterm significance and enduring notability.

Google Ngram - note that physicalism, a specific subset of materialism, is about as prominent as historical materialism (which is itself a product of Marx's materialist reading of Hegel, see Historical materialism#Hegel's contribution to Marx's theory of history). DiodotusNicator (talk) 20:39, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

WP:PTOPIC says that "While long-term significance is a factor, historical age is not determinative." This argument is purely based on it being the older thing, despite all the other topics also having major long-term significance and having existed for at least hundreds of years. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:41, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

This argument is purely based on it being the older thing

No, that's not the case. Please do not misrepresent the comments of other editors. "Far older" in parentheses is quite obviously an aside.

You ignored:

- the Ngram link, which demonstrates substantially (10x!) greater enduring notability

- the core argument that all of these topics are named "XYZ materialism" because they are derived from the metaphysical position; the historical materialism example was intended to illustrate this. DiodotusNicator (talk) 15:43, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Ngrams would not seem to indicate anything in particular, since the other topics are also widely known simply as "materialism", hence why they are being disambiguated. The only reason they are called such things as "economic materialism" on Wikipedia is due to WP:NATURAL, because it is more convenient than using a parenthetical disambiguation such as materialism (consumer behavior). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:49, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Now you seem to be arguing that dialectical and historical materialism are "widely known simply as materialism"? That is absolutely not the case.

And you are still failing to address my argument, which is also demonstrated by the entries Srnec has quoted below: what WP calls "economic" materialism is named after the metaphysical view. It's very straightforward - if you believe that nothing exists but matter, then you might as well pursue material comforts above all else. DiodotusNicator (talk) 23:44, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

• Lean oppose. The philosophical article is well placed to be a broad concept article, although it isn't quite at the moment. The dab page, however, is even more problematic in how it treats these all as independent things. Compare this from the Oxford Dictionary of the Social Sciences:

  In common usage, materialism describes the privileging of material comforts over spiritual, ethical, and philosophical concerns. In its philosophical sense, materialism holds that speculative thought, social processes, and institutions are directly shaped by the physical world; as such, materialism takes issue with idealism—the belief that external reality cannot be understood apart from consciousness, or, more radically, that some ideas or categories of understanding exist prior to experience.

  And the Oxford Companion to Philosophy:

  So far we have considered materialism as a meta-physical doctrine. But in ordinary thinking it often refers to a doctrine about values. Here again it is often contrasted with idealism, which now refers to the pursuit of ideals that may be high-flown but are likely to be impossible to achieve in practice. The materialist by contrast pursues ends connected with the bodily pleasures, or the possession of material goods, or else with such things as money, thought of as a means to such pleasures or goods.

  —Srnec (talk) 21:23, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Thanks, Glasspalace (talk • contribs) 13:22, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose as this is a sufficient broad-concept article that mentions and covers all types of materialism, including dialectical, economic, and historical. It is a justified primary topic, so there's no need for anything to be changed. 1isall (talk | contribs) 16:15, 15 February 2026 (UTC)