Talk:New Spain

I am not going to ask that the flag be changed; it seems that has been argued about enough already. I am asking, however, that the flag be placed alongside the coat of arms in the same box, rather than the flag have its own box. No other country articles on Wikipedia use this format, and it looks disorganized.

TLDR: Place flag alongside Coat of Arms in the same box.

This message applies to any other article on Spanish colonies.

296cherry (talk) 17:00, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Other articles use this format, See . In the case of the viceroyalties, they have their own coat of arms, but no their own flag. The Spanish flag, the red and yellow flag and/or the burgundy cross are used. Vicentemovil (talk) 21:10, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I have reverted because those Spanish flags are not proper flags of the viceroyalty. Vicentemovil (talk) 16:17, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I noticed some parts of the article use the term "Indians", and I know its referring to indigenous people, but I thought some readers could mistake this to mean people from India since the context doesn't always make it immediately clear. I was wondering if we should standardize to say indigenous people throughout the article, or do we prefer it the current way even though its inconsistent? There is probably a relevant guideline but I can't remember it. Pythagimedes (talk) 18:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Why is the map in the infobox described as anachronistic? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The Burgundy Cross flag was never associated with the Viceroyalty of New Spain, nor was it ever used during the period or region in question. Therefore, I propose its removal from the article.

Source:

BELLIDO Andreu, Antonio, Aproximación a la historia militar de España, vol. 3, chap. "Bandera y escudo de España," pp. 357–370.

In summary, the modern concept of a national flag dates to the 19th century. No viceroy in the Americas (nor any governor, adelantado, corregidor, etc.) ever used a flag representing the Spanish state.

During the era of the Viceroyalty of New Spain, the Spanish Empire employed not one but countless flags, some of which included Burgundy crosses (or saltires), but with highly varied designs and colors—often incorporating coats of arms, mottos, illustrations, and other modifications in format and composition.

These flags were more personal than national in nature (they were not state symbols but rather represented the king, local landowners, or military captains). Rather than corresponding to modern national flags, they would be better likened to present-day military guidons or unit insignia (such as the emblem of the 101st Airborne Division, the Spetsnaz, or the Spanish Civil Guard).

It is true that the two main elements of the current Burgundy Cross flag appeared in some of these historical banners, but never in a stable or standardized form. Their use was temporary and mutable, never serving as a state symbol. Moreover, they were employed exclusively in military contexts—never in governmental, diplomatic, or ceremonial settings.

The flag displayed in this and other articles (red saltires on a white background in a 2:3 ratio, sometimes inaccurately termed the "coronela") was not an imperial Spanish flag nor did it exist during the colonial period. It was, in fact, the flag of the Carlist movement, emerging well into the 19th century—after Latin American independence. Today, it has been adopted by Spanish conservative political movements (such as nationalism and Pan-Hispanism) and is falsely circulated on social media as a historical flag of the Spanish Empire. Ingo y gonga (talk) 02:25, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

I recommend that anyone who has the time read 'La frontera norte de la Nueva España' by Peter Gerhard, from the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México. In it, he explains and shows with detailed maps how, in the year 1800, the maximum extent of Spanish dominion (effective dominion, not claimed territory) in New Spain was:

1. The Californian coast up to Monterey. The interior of California was never colonized.

2. Santa Fe and Nacogdoches in the interior (Texas). These were isolated from the rest of Spanish territory, as the area was dominated by Native Americans who did not recognize Spanish claims.

3. The area near New Orleans throughout Luciana.

4. And the cities of Pensacola, Mavila, Fernandina, and St. Augustine in Florida. The rest, again, was in Native American hands or was wilderness.

The rest of the northern territory of the Viceroyalty was never under effective Spanish possession.

It would be good to show a map that shows the actual extent of the Spanish domain. ~2025-40236-97 (talk) 22:08, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Well, the map shows all the territory that formally belonged to the Viceroyalty; there were treaties that marked the borders, and you also have some flaws in your argument. ~2026-12735-71 (talk) 11:53, 26 February 2026 (UTC)