Talk:Pātea
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 | On 5 November 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Pātea. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Untitled
My mother was born there (or in the nearby larger town Hawera) on 27 September 1916 while her father was Engineer at the freezing works, decades before it closed. Robin Patterson 03:26, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Macron? (Pātea or Patea)
I'm not sure of correct name here when reading policy at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (New Zealand). It is gazetted as Pātea but this is not official. The Pātea River that flows through the town also has the macron and is the official name in the gazette. A quick search suggested most recent news articles are using the macron. To move or not to move?ShakyIsles (talk) 20:46, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Requested move 5 November 2021
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: no consensus. If reliable sources start consistently using the macron, it seems there would be interest in revisiting the issue. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Patea → Pātea – Spelling (adding macron). Spekkios (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. VR talk 02:30, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
- Maybe I misread the talk page comments, but doesn't this say that the Gazetting is not official? The linked policy says "Do not take guidance from the New Zealand Gazetteer if the entry is labelled as "not official" " so it seems like there should be an argument based on common name in favor of a move. SnowFire (talk) 05:03, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, that what I was trying to say. More recent new articles seem to be using Pātea more frequently that without the macron so I'd tend towards Pātea being the common name. Also WP:WIAN and WP:MODERNPLACENAME point towards Pātea. ShakyIsles (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps it would be useful to provide evidence for/against this having become the common name? BilledMammal (talk) 05:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- Support the names of several nearby geographic features use the macron in their official names (eg. Pātea Dam, Pātea Bank, Pātea River) and the unofficial gazetted name is also recorded as having a macron. Seems like what should be an uncontroversial move. Turnagra (talk) 09:24, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose, for the moment. Being a non-official name we need to determine what the common name is, and so since nobody seemed interesting in looking for sources I had a quick look, limiting my search to the past month. There, we see some sources using the names interchangeably (Stuff 12 and NZ Herald 12), while some sources continue to not use the macron at all (RNZ, Newsroom). In a year or two it would be worth having another RM, as there does seem to be a trend towards its use, but for the moment this is WP:TOOSOON BilledMammal (talk) 11:56, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Support as per WP:WIAN and WP:MODERNPLACENAME. Pātea is gaining traction and is correct Maori spelling. ShakyIsles (talk) 00:50, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
- WP:MODERNPLACENAME states that "Per Wikipedia's naming policy, our choice of name does not automatically follow the official or local form, but depends on that change having become predominant in common global usage", while WP:WIAN provides a list of sources that can be useful in doing this. Neither are a reason to move without this evidence, and so can we please have some evidence? If the results my search turned up differ from reality, then I would be happy to change my !vote. BilledMammal (talk) 01:15, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose per BilledMammal. The evidence says it's too soon to add a macron, as reliable sources aren't generally doing so. — Amakuru (talk) 22:25, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose - per BilledMammal. This is neither a case of a Maori name that has been gazetted officially with a specific Maori spelling, nor a case where the Maori name with macron has been shown to the common name in NZ English. FOARP (talk) 10:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
- It is a specific Maori spelling that is in the gazetter (just not 'official"). Pātea is official in the name of other locations that directly reference the town name (Pātea Dam, Pātea Bank, Pātea River). Pātea means "unencumbered, freed from burdens" . The name is derived from, Pātea-nui-a-Turi meaning "where Turi laid down his burdens" . ShakyIsles (talk) 22:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- I've reviewed recent articles on the topic, in line with my suggestion that we reconsider this in a couple of years, but the sources still prefer Patea. BilledMammal (talk) 08:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Requested move 6 March 2026
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved * Pppery * it has begun... 21:25, 14 March 2026 (UTC)
Patea → Pātea – Per WP:NCNZ, words of Māori origin should include the macron. The macron is used in the gazetteer, but as the name is marked as "unofficial", we instead need to rely on what other sources are using, which appear to show that usage as shifted to spelling the town with the macron.
Official sources almost exclusively use the macron, including the local council, Statistics NZ, Tourism NZ and Pātea's entry in Te Ara: The Encyclopedia of New Zealand.
Since 2018-ish, media organisations also appear to now use the macron exclusively, including The Post , Stuff , NZ Herald . Radio NZ appears to be the outlier, as they continued using either spelling up until 2024 (e.g. with and without ), but have spelt it with ever since . nil nz 00:22, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Support per WP:COMMONNAME as demonstrated. Turnagra (talk) 20:15, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- The characterisation of 'exclusively' doesn't seem to be correct although when limiting to the past year most of the media sources prefer the macron.
- Also and do not mention the town. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:03, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- Appreciate you finding those, saying "exclusively" was probably a bit absolute, given there are some examples to the contrary. I'd note though that [21] is republishing news reports from the 1930s, and [22] uses the macron twice (and without once).
- Wrt 24 & 25, I'd read the Pātea Historical Society and the saltmarsh as being named for the town, but acknowledge they could equally be named for the river (or other local geographic feature). nil nz 08:40, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- You're right, I didn't read the whole article as I didn't expect an excerpt from a 1930s work. The 2nd one does use both, but thats just showing that 'exclusively' isn't really correct here and there is mixed usage in many of the sources, which suggests they all lack a broad editorial policy on Patea specifically and individual editors/writers have the say in it. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:02, 7 March 2026 (UTC)