Talk:Raju
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 | Sources on the Kshatriya-claim are examined at User:Joshua Jonathan/Raju (Kshatriya) sources |
Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2019
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Please change "The Raju are a Telugu caste found mostly in the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh." to "Raju is a Telugu variation of the Sanskrit word Raj and Raja meaning King, Prince or Lord. They are mostly Vaishnavites. Rajus of course assume the sacred thread, and are very proud and particular in their conduct. Brahmanical rites of Punya Havachanam (Purification), Jata Karma (Birth ceremony), Nama Karanam (Naming ceremony), Chaulam (Tonsure), and Upanayanam (Thread ceremony) are performed"
Please change "Etymology and claims of Kshatriya status" to "History" "Historically South Indian royal families of Kshatriyas (Rajus) had marital relationship with Central and North Indian royal families, like Rajas of Vizianagaram, Salur and Kurupam had marital relationships with the Rajputana royal families."
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"Legends The history of South India and the Puranas reveal that the Andhra Kshatriyas descended from the Aryavarta (northern India) to the south due to internal conflicts, foreign invasions, famine, etc. Vayu Purana, Buddhist and Jain literatures mention about migration of Ikshvaku Kshatriyas to southern India. Rajus traditional accounts claim descent from Ikshvaku, Vishnukundina, Chalukya, Paricchedi and Kota Vamsa. Some historians and traditional accounts link Rajus to ancient Andhra Ikshvakus, which was the first Kshatriya kingdom in Andhra which ruled during 2nd and 3rd Centuries CE and are purportedly linked to ancient Ikshvakus of Kosala. According to most historians and by the inscriptional evidences of Paricchedi and Chagi ruling clans, during 4th - 5th century AD few Kshatriyas of four clans travelled from northern India to the south, where they initially worked as feudatories of Vakatakas before establishing the Vishnukundina Kingdom, while some Kshatriyas of Andhra are said to be descendents of Eastern Chalukyas and few other Kshatriya dynasties. Basing on ancient inscriptions, traditional accounts and historical evidences, the Rajus of Andhra are descendents of the following ancient clans: 1. Vishnukundina: A folktale claims Madhav Varma of the Vishnukundina dynasty led the original members of their gotras to Andhra. 2. Chalukyas: Chandravanshi Rajus are said to be descendents of Eastern Chalukyas. 3. Parichedis: The forefathers of the Pusapatis. 4. Kota Vamsa: Dharanikota Kings of Dhanunjaya gotra. 5. Chagi: Forefathers of the Sagis and Vatsavais 6. Chedi (Haiheya-Kalachuri-Kona Chodas): Chodarajus 7. Gajapati and Eastern Ganga: Kurupam and Salur zamindars claim descent from them. 8. Matsya of Oddadi (Orissa), which is linked to ancient Matsya Kingdom: The zamindars of Madgole claim descent from them. Rajus are classified into two sects (as per ancient Kshatriya tradition based on Vansh): 1. Suryavanshi (Sun Dynasty) include Vishnukundina, Paricheda, Kota Vamsa, Chola-Chalukyas (Cholas claimed Suryavanshi and Chalukyas were Chandravanshi, the two families merged) Eastern Ganga and Gajapati. 2. Chandravanshi (Moon Dynasty) includes Eastern Chalukyas, , Kalachuris (Chedi-Haihaya), Saluva and Aravidu dyanasties of Vijayanagar. Gotras They are further subdivided into Four Gotras. 1. Vasishta 2. Dhanunjaya 3. Kashyapa 4. Kaundinya A poem called Sri Krishna-vijayam dated 1540 A.D. tells of a migration of these four clans to Telingana led by Madhav Varma. While Rajus of Coastal Andhra and Rajapalayam have above four gotras, the Rajus of Karnataka have three additional gotras: 1. Pasupati 2. Vishwamitra 3. Atreya Each Gotra is again sub-divided into hundreds of endogamous sects based on surnames that are named after villages of origin, a famous member of the clan, personality, etc. Sage Kaundinya (Kundin) was the son of Vasishtha and nephew of Agastya. Dhanunjaya is a branch of Vishwamitra. Pasupati is a branch of Kashyapa. A book entitled Sri Andhra Kshatriya Vamsha Ratnakaram elaborates on the traditional accounts and genealogy of the Kshatriya Raju community of Coastal Andhra and was written by Varahala Raju Buddharaju in Telugu. This book gives genealogy details of the 109 surnames of Andhra Kshatriya Rajus and their Four gotras." |
[1] [2] [3] Preetiraju (talk) 21:11, 30 September 2019 (UTC) [4]
Not done. These are not reliable sources. I notice that it was explained by RegentsPark below in more detail. Please do not waste people's time by posting unviable edit requests. If you more such requests, I will be deleting them. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
References
Failed Verification
I have removed the following sentence: They also claim descent from the ancient royal dynasties of India such as the Eastern Chalukyas, Chalukya-Cholas, Vishnukundina, Gajapati, Chagi, Paricheda and Kota Vamsa. The cited page number makes no such statement. You can find the complete book here: https://archive.org/details/dli.jZY9lup2kZl6TuXGlZQdjZM1k0My/page/n283 . The page number cited discusses the Kadamabas. By LovSLif (talk) 06:37, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2025
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Change Varna Status to the below to reflect a neutral point-of-view:
The Raju community of Andhra Pradesh has long asserted a Kshatriya identity, a claim that appears in various administrative and scholarly records. The 1901 Census of India classified the Razu (Raju) community under the grouping “Kshatriya and allied castes” (1, p. 53). Edgar Thurston, in Castes and Tribes of Southern India, described the Rāzus as a Telugu caste articulating a Kshatriya origin, noting practices such as sword worship at weddings and the wearing of the sacred thread—traits commonly associated with traditional soldiering groups (2, pp. 247–256). The community maintains lineages such as Sūryavamsam and Chandravamsam, which correspond to well-known Kshatriya clan traditions.
The term Rācavāru, commonly used for the Rajus in Andhra, appears in M. Somasekhara Sarma’s History of the Reddi Kingdom (4, p. 266). Sarma notes that the Chalukyas of the Manavyasa gotra—who governed much of coastal Andhra from the seventh century onward—are not included among the principal Kshatriya lineages listed in the traditional Kshatriya Sisimālika verse. This verse, which outlines the major Kshatriya houses recognized in the region, traces the origins of the Rācavāru to four ancestral families: the Kakatiyas, Kotas, Parichēdis, and Varnalakas, associated with the Kasyapa, Dhanañjaya, Vasiṣṭha and Kaundinya gotras respectively (4, p. 267).
The Madras Census Report of 1901 notes an alternative view, stating that “the Rajus or Razus who pose themselves as Kshatriyas may perhaps be the descendants of the military section of the Kapu, the Kamma and the Velama castes” (3, p. 284). Sociologists have also remarked on the fluid nature of warrior status in medieval Andhra, where the term Rāja could apply to a range of ruling and military groups (5, p. 50). S. N. Sadasivan mentions that communities asserting such status in the region were collectively referred to as Rajus (3, pp. 239–240).
Despite the absence of a rigidly defined Kshatriya varna structure in the region, the Raju caste retains a socially elevated position. A. Satyanarayana describes them as a locally dominant landed gentry (6, p. 53), while anthropologist Minna Säävälä identifies them as a “higher caste of traditional warriors and rulers; Kshatriya” (7, p. xvi).
References: (1) 1901 census vol 1, Social Grouping of Dravidan Tract, p. 53. Link: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.55922/page/n63/mode/2up
(2) Thurston, Edgar. Castes and Tribes of India, pp. 247-256. Link: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.56742/page/n293/mode/2up
(3) Sadasivan, S.N. Social History of India, pp. 239-240 & 284. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=Be3PCvzf-BYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=Rajus&f=false
(4) Sarma, M. Somasekhara. History of Reddi Kingdom, p. 266-267. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32066
(5) Divine Sounds from the Heart—Singing Unfettered in their Own Voices, p. 50. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=mYEnBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA47&dq=Kotas%20Sudra&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj9kM-10cTyAhWV7HMBHTsuCNUQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=As%20far%20as%20the%20Kshatriya%20community&f=false
(6) Satyanarayana, A. (2002). Growth of Education among the Dalit-Bahujan Communities in Modern Andhra, p. 53. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=f-jBIp3iWdEC&redir_esc=y
(7) Säävälä, Minna (2001). Fertility and familial power relations: procreation in south India, p. xvi. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=c9FwQxGqwOUC&pg=PA16&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false Saivishal9 (talk) 09:01, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
- Not done. Please use a “change X to Y” format. NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 16:26, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
- Sure. Thanks for letting me know. Saivishal9 (talk) 18:18, 4 December 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 December 2025
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Change:
The Raju caste, which A. Satyanarayana calls the "locally dominant landed gentry", claims Kshatriya status in the varna system despite there being "no real Kshatriya varna" in the Andhra region.[4][a]
To:
The Raju community of Andhra Pradesh has long asserted a Kshatriya identity, a claim that appears in various administrative and scholarly records. The 1901 Census of India classified the Razu (Raju) community under the grouping “Kshatriya and allied castes” (1, p. 53). Edgar Thurston, in Castes and Tribes of Southern India, described the Rāzus as a Telugu caste articulating a Kshatriya origin, noting practices such as sword worship at weddings and the wearing of the sacred thread—traits commonly associated with traditional soldiering groups (2, pp. 247–256). The community maintains lineages such as Sūryavamsam and Chandravamsam, which correspond to well-known Kshatriya clan traditions.
The term Rācavāru, commonly used for the Rajus in Andhra, appears in M. Somasekhara Sarma’s History of the Reddi Kingdom (4, p. 266). Sarma notes that the Chalukyas of the Manavyasa gotra—who governed much of coastal Andhra from the seventh century onward—are not included among the principal Kshatriya lineages listed in the traditional Kshatriya Sisimālika verse. This verse, which outlines the major Kshatriya houses recognized in the region, traces the origins of the Rācavāru to four ancestral families: the Kakatiyas, Kotas, Parichēdis, and Varnalakas, associated with the Kasyapa, Dhanañjaya, Vasiṣṭha and Kaundinya gotras respectively (4, p. 267).
The Madras Census Report of 1901 notes an alternative view, stating that “the Rajus or Razus who pose themselves as Kshatriyas may perhaps be the descendants of the military section of the Kapu, the Kamma and the Velama castes” (3, p. 284). Sociologists have also remarked on the fluid nature of warrior status in medieval Andhra, where the term Rāja could apply to a range of ruling and military groups (5, p. 50). S. N. Sadasivan mentions that communities asserting such status in the region were collectively referred to as Rajus (3, pp. 239–240).
Despite the absence of a rigidly defined Kshatriya varna structure in the region, the Raju caste retains a socially elevated position. A. Satyanarayana describes them as a locally dominant landed gentry (6, p. 53), while anthropologist Minna Säävälä identifies them as a “higher caste of traditional warriors and rulers; Kshatriya” (7, p. xvi).
References:
(1) 1901 census vol 1, Social Grouping of Dravidan Tract, p. 53. Link: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.55922/page/n63/mode/2up
(2) Thurston, Edgar. Castes and Tribes of India, pp. 247-256. Link: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.56742/page/n293/mode/2up
(3) Sadasivan, S.N. Social History of India, pp. 239-240 & 284. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=Be3PCvzf-BYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=Rajus&f=false
(4) Sarma, M. Somasekhara. History of Reddi Kingdom, p. 266-267. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32066
(5) Divine Sounds from the Heart—Singing Unfettered in their Own Voices, p. 50. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=mYEnBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA47&dq=Kotas%20Sudra&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj9kM-10cTyAhWV7HMBHTsuCNUQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=As%20far%20as%20the%20Kshatriya%20community&f=false
(6) Satyanarayana, A. (2002). Growth of Education among the Dalit-Bahujan Communities in Modern Andhra, p. 53. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=f-jBIp3iWdEC&redir_esc=y
(7) Säävälä, Minna (2001). Fertility and familial power relations: procreation in south India, p. xvi. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=c9FwQxGqwOUC&pg=PA16&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saivishal9 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 4 December 2025 (UTC)
- Is this AI-generated? --pro-anti-air ––>(talk)<–– 20:37, 4 December 2025 (UTC)
- No, this is my original content that I wrote based on reliable sources. I only used AI as a grammar checker to fix any minor errors or improve phrasing. I've made a similar edit request earlier as well and it was rejected due to not being in the "Change X to Y format". I have made the changes and posted it again. Saivishal9 (talk) 02:05, 5 December 2025 (UTC)
- Not done. Thank you for the detailed proposal. However, the requested edit cannot be implemented for the following reasons:
- No, this is my original content that I wrote based on reliable sources. I only used AI as a grammar checker to fix any minor errors or improve phrasing. I've made a similar edit request earlier as well and it was rejected due to not being in the "Change X to Y format". I have made the changes and posted it again. Saivishal9 (talk) 02:05, 5 December 2025 (UTC)
Sources (),(), and () cannot be used for caste-classification claims.These are pre-independence / colonial ethnographic or pre-modern historical sources, which are not accepted as reliable for caste-status statements in contemporary Wikipedia caste articles per established practice and WP:HISTRS. They may be useful for historical description, but not for validating varna claims in the present article. Sadasivan () is not accepted for caste-related content. Sadasivan, Social History of India has been repeatedly flagged by multiple caste-related talk pages as unreliable for caste classification, due to interpretive issues and lack of scholarly consensus. It therefore cannot be used as a source for defining or contesting the status of the Raju caste. Source () does not mention Rajus and constitutes WP:SYNTH. The text cited from Divine Sounds from the Heart contains no reference to the Raju community. Using a source that discusses general warrior groups to support a statement about Rajus would be original synthesis, which is prohibited by WP:SYNTH. A source must explicitly discuss the subject being cited. Sources () and () are already used in the article. Satyanarayana (Satyanarayana 2002) and Säävälä (Säävälä 2001) are already cited in the article body to represent relevant scholarly views. There is no justification to replace the current neutral summary sentence with an extended multi-paragraph narrative repeating these same sources. Sharkslayer87 (talk) 05:48, 5 December 2025 (UTC)
- @Sharkslayer87 thanks for letting me know. Will come up with better proposals next time. Saivishal9 (talk) 07:28, 5 December 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2025
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Change:
The Raju caste, which A. Satyanarayana calls the "locally dominant landed gentry", claims Kshatriya status in the varna system despite there being "no real Kshatriya varna" in the Andhra region.
To:
The Raju caste, which A. Satyanarayana calls the "locally dominant landed gentry," claims Kshatriya status in the varna system, despite the general observation that there is "no real Kshatriya varna" in the Andhra region. A. Satyanarayana further classifies the Raju/Kshatriya caste as one of the three communities—alongside the Brahmins and the Arya Vaishya/Komati—that constitute the upper-caste dwijas segment in the local social order and are recognized as claimants to the "twice-born" status.
Reference:
4. Satyanarayana, A. (2002). "Growth of Education among the Dalit-Bahujan Communities in Modern Andhra, 1893-1947". In Bhattacharya, Sabyasachi (ed.). Education and the Disprivileged: Nineteenth and Twentieth Century India. Orient Blackswan. pp. 17, 53 & 54. ISBN 978-81-250-2192-6.
PAGES: 17, 53-54
Link: https://books.google.co.in/books?id=f-jBIp3iWdEC&redir_esc=y
NOTE:
The reference already exists in the article as (4). Additional information from pages 17 and 54 is be taken into consideration, apart from the existing page 53. Czar984 (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2025 (UTC)
Done without modifying existing text in section. tony 18:42, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
