Talk:Taproot (band)

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Fair use rationale for Image:Taproot Blue Sky Research.jpg

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Regarding this article's content, nicknames and personal bias is all over this article, as well as this discussion page. 64.212.95.204 22:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


RAPCORE???

They never made rapcore! please listen to their songs first before you change it to rapcore(RAP METAL)! they just sing and never raped! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.167.213.225 (talk) 10:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

you've obviously never heard their pre-gift works. their first two (independent) albums (before Gift) had some rap/rock type stuff. 66.38.19.158 (talk) 20:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

BTW: Rapped has two "P's". I would hope too that the fine young men of Taproot never raped either. 208.24.252.14 (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Gift album name

Is the gift album just called "Gift"? on the front cover it says in blue lettering above the word gift in white: "yesterdayishistorytomorrowisamysterytodayisa..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark wounds (talk • contribs) 16:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

it is shown basically everywhere as just 'Gift'. 66.38.19.158 (talk) 14:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

Holy crap this thing needs some grammatical cleanup. I'm a relatively new user, though, so how do you put a 'cleanup needed' disclaimer in an article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.226.30 (talk) 07:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


-- Agreed. This article is terrible and doesn't conform to encyclopedic style in any way, shape or form. It reads like it was written by an eighth grader who is describing his garage band for a school report.

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External links

Hello @T Yorke, you are currently engaged in an edit war with me on the Taproot (band) page. Please desist and discuss on the talk page instead. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 06:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Revirvlkodlaku, I'm just trying to add a link to the band's merch store. It says it's the official store on the band's official Facebook and Twitter pages. According to WP:SOCIALMEDIA, adding this information is acceptable. T Yorke (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

@T Yorke, what is not acceptable is your edit warring. Please familiarize yourself with the topic here: WP:Edit warring. As pertains to the external link you insist on placing on the page, please read WP:External links#Minimize the number of links. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku, so it's acceptable for you to edit the article but if it's anyone else it's edit warring? Please familiarize yourself with WP:OWN. Also, in the page WP:External links#Minimize the number of links, it states: "More than one official link should be provided only when the additional links provide the reader with significant unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites." T Yorke (talk) 00:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@T Yorke, you are misrepresenting what has happened: you made an edit, I reverted you. So far so good. Your next step should have been to discuss on the talk page, per WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Instead, you reverted back. This is how an edit war begins. I should not, then, have reverted once more, but I did; that is my bad. At this stage, we are at loggerheads: I believe I am correct in stating that the link doesn't belong, whereas you feel the opposite way. My position is that the site is a merch site, not an official Taproot site, despite what their social media states. If you feel strongly that your position is superior to mine, please seek a third opinion. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku, in regards to a third opinion, it states: "This process is neither mandatory nor binding." on WP:Third opinion. I wonder why you seem so determined to keep the official store link from being in the article. The band definitely seems like they could use the help monetarily since they created a GoFundMe page to finance their upcoming album. Do you have some kind of personal issue with the band or what? T Yorke (talk) 04:24, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@T Yorke, please don't make ridiculous insinuations. I have nothing against Taproot—I used to be a big fan of theirs, once upon a time. I've already explained to you why I don't think the link should be on the page. Which part of my reasoning wasn't clear to you? If you don't wish to pursue a third opinion, you can drop the matter, but if you continue to reintroduce the link despite my stance against it, you will be creating a bigger problem than is warranted. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 06:04, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku, yeah OK, I'm done wasting my time with you. T Yorke (talk) 06:36, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Lede

Hi @User:Clay...Bill Clay, you are now engaged in an edit war with me about the wording of the lede; please stop and discuss the issue instead. I don't think it is necessary to mention that the band had other hits in the 90s. "Poem" was their most notable song, and in my opinion, it is sufficient to include that in the lede. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 07:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I think either keep it like this (only mentioning the 1 song) or not mentioning it at all (since it gets mentioned in the next paragraph anyway). Either way, not much use mentioning "other singles" and linking the discography page since none of those singles sadly ever came close to Poem's popularity (Calling was closest but not by much). Xanarki (talk) 17:36, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Upon Us and Something More Than Nothing shouldn't be listed under Discography

I thought this was kinda obvious. Both are independent demo albums, and aren't treated as major releases in the band's history. The most obvious traits are the fact that both albums contained a few songs that were later re-recorded for their major label album + they were pressed on literal cheap CD-Rs and didn't have professional packaging + the obvious title of their 2010 album (Plead the Fifth, "fifth" which refers to it as their fifth actual album).Xanarki (talk) 23:10, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

@Xanarki, why would independent demo albums not be included in an artist's discography? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:02, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
They usually aren't - at least, in regards to a band's main article, under the Discography heading (on the full Discography pages it's fine, but in those cases, they're usually listed separate as Demo albums).
The main reasons are all similar to the ones I just mentioned above (usually pressed on cheap CD-Rs, not given a wide distribution, material wasn't professionally recorded so many songs were re-recorded for actual albums, and the respective band doesn't consider them to be main releases).
A few examples (all of these do not appear on the band's main article alongside their normal full-length albums)... Slipknot with Mate. Feed. Kill. Repeat.. KMFDM with Opium. 311 with Dammit! and Unity. Nonpoint with Separate Yourself and Struggle. Biohazard with Biohazard. Fear Factory with Concrete. Sponge with Planet Girls. The Smashing Pumpkins with The Smashing Pumpkins and Moon. Toadies with Slaphead. Dream Theater with The Majesty Demos. Soundgarden with 6 Songs for Bruce. Etc etc etc.
Every band is different and has their own special set of circumstances. But, there is a common thread here, and Taproot's 2 independent releases falls under it I believe. Xanarki (talk) 05:17, 28 April 2025 (UTC)
@Xanarki, that makes good sense, so thanks for the thorough explanation. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:31, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Stephen Richards

@T Yorke, I encourage you not to engage in edit warring but to resort to BRD instead. My contention is that numbness mentioned in 2023 but not since, even if it is in a guitarist's hand, is trivial and need not be included in the article. Do you have a strong reason for insisting that it be included? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:21, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

It's an issue he's been dealing with for several years. He doesn't usually mention it in interviews but he's posted about it on his Facebook page, once in 2023: https://www.facebook.com/100006489547801/posts/pfbid02XcYkCDEhAxd4WuFVXr23eoc7DPWhzLa7EzYGhm734xXHhBdq1GqwqFoyBH6dAFZNl/?app=fbl
and twice in 2021: https://www.facebook.com/stephen.richards.79069/videos/3286081774951442/?app=fbl
https://www.facebook.com/stephen.richards.79069/videos/3274196382806648/?app=fbl T Yorke (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
It doesn't seem important unless it impedes his ability to perform his musical duties. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:24, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
It does impede his ability to perform. T Yorke (talk) 15:11, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
Can you provide a cited claim that this is the case? If not, the issue should not be mentioned in the article. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
It's in the reference that I added. T Yorke (talk) 16:41, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
@User:T Yorke the quote says no more than this: "...making sure I can still play guitar after a major surgery years ago and issues feeling my hand..." Richards doesn't suggest that the injury or the numbness has affected his ability to play, only that he needs to "make sure". I still think this need not be mentioned.
@User:Xanarki, there's no indication within the article or the provided references that this in any way ties into the 11-year gap—that seems to be your own conjecture. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:06, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
Whoops, I thought it was mentioned off-hand in the secondary source. If @T Yorke can find some sort of source in which the injury did indeed impact the band's activity or output, then I'm all for keeping it in...on a related note I did see that Richards got into a bad car accident very recently but I'm not sure if that affected the band's touring/schedule at all. Xanarki (talk) 04:11, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
I'm glad you agree that Richards surgery and numbness in his hand should stay in the article @Xanarki. As far as the gap between records, I think it was because of his health problems, taking care of his mother who had cancer, and other factors. I'm sure there are references for that information out there. He was in a car accident recently because of his seizures and I think his guitarist is currently touring with his other band, Riding With Killers. T Yorke (talk) 07:24, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
@T Yorke, as far as I can tell, per their last comment, Xanarki is not agreeing with you, so at the moment, your insistence on keeping the content in the article verges on disruptiveness.
"I think..." is nothing more than you extrapolating a causal relationship between a car accident and a performance/release hiatus, and as you likely know, that constitutes OR on Wikipedia. Unless you can provide a solid reference that explicitly mentions the reason for the hiatus as well as one that indicates that Richards' hand numbness is causing an impediment to his guitar playing, the content should be removed, as it is trivial. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:20, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Yeah upon further review of the sources, the hand thing probably shouldn't be in the article. It doesn't seem to have affected Taproot too much.
But overall, expanding upon why the band didn't do much for 11 years is something that is sorely lacking from here. If a reliable source clearly stated that his hand played a part in the gap, then yeah, it should be in. But I couldn't find anything.
Also, his recent car accident, along with the mention that he's been struggling with seizures for 15 years, seems to be more noteworthy than his hand. Especially because it apparently derailed any Taproot plans for 2025. Xanarki (talk) 18:04, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
I saw @Xanarki wrote "I think the injury note should remain." on his May 7th edit. I added another reference to the article just now about his health issues which delayed the album release. My comment about the car accident was just a response to the comment @Xanarki made and has nothing to do with what I added to the article. T Yorke (talk) 19:09, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
My edit was before I looked more closely at the sources. I think the bit about his hand should just be changed to something more broad like "due to health issues with Richards, there was an extended period of inactivity with the band which led to a delayed release of the album" etc etc etc.
And then, maybe further down, a bit about the car accident and how it puts Taproot's near-future plans into question. It seems pretty serious (I'm not near a PC and my phone isn't that great for Wiki editing otherwise I'd help with all this). Xanarki (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. I added an additional reference just now if you want to check it out. T Yorke (talk) 19:48, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Thanks for that idea @Xanarki. T Yorke (talk) 19:50, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
Looks fine by me - it's placed in a logical spot (after the long-delayed album announcement), puts a spotlight on the huge gap of inactivity, and (either myself or someone else eventually) will serve as a setup to Richards' 2025 car accident, which occurred because of the aforementioned health issues aka his seizures. Xanarki (talk) 22:38, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Musical style and influences

The Musical style and influences section starts by describing Taproot's musical style, then it jumps to the bands that have influenced them, before once more talking about their style by comparing them to other musicians. I think it would be much more coherent to change the order so that the section first describes Taproot, including by mentioning their influences, and then talks about who they in turn have influenced, without unnecessarily jumping around. @T Yorke, what's your argument against this? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:00, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

I was unsure of what the precedence was. So, I looked at other band pages, bands that are much bigger in name than Taproot (and some of which are actual featured/rated 'good' articles): Nine Inch Nails, Metallica, Limp Bizkit, Korn, Creed, etc.
The below seems to be the ideal guidelines, in order of mentioned first to mentioned last:
Mentioned 1st: Musical style of The Band, genres mentioned, etc.
Mentioned 2nd: Influences on The Band which contributes to their musical style, etc.
Mentioned 3rd: Legacy, other bands that The Band had influenced and/or bands sounding similar to The Band, etc.
It should be noted that most of the pages actually have separate sections - one for Artistry (going over the band's musical style and naming the band's influences) and Legacy (going over who the band influenced and if they sounded similar to other bands). Since Taproot's article doesn't mention any bands that they themselves influenced, there's no need for a separate Legacy section, but the 'sounded similar to other bands' tidbit would fall under that section, if there was one.
Based on the articles I mentioned above, how Taproot's page looks now (musical style -> influences -> similar bands) is how other pages are currently structured. I do understand why it reads a little weird, but, if just one word was added to that second sentence (" Some of the bands that have influenced Taproot's sound include... "), then it all flows together better IMO. Xanarki (talk) 22:03, 14 August 2025 (UTC)
I agree with @Xanarki. I'd also like to point out that in the reference to the sentence at the end of the section, the writer states: "The band also deserves props for its taste in heroes. The work of the Deftones, Helmet, Tool, and early Fugazi seems to have served as the blueprint, with the best elements of Korn and Pantera scattered here and there. Unfortunately, Taproot never rises above its influences." This was right after Taproot's first album came out. It appears that the writer believes that those are influences on the band but that isn't actually confirmed by any band member of Taproot. I'd also be fine with that sentence being deleted from the article since it seems to be just an assumption by the writer after Taproot's first album was released. T Yorke (talk) 03:10, 15 August 2025 (UTC)
I have to concede to the apparent consensus here, and while I acknowledge that precedent carries some weight (in the absence of an actual guideline), the order seems mixed up to me. I think it would make more sense to talk about how they sound first, including who they've been compared to, and then to mention whom they've influenced. What's the logic behind doing it differently? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:12, 15 August 2025 (UTC)
I assume the reasoning goes something like: talking about how a band sounds -> talking about how that sound came to be in the first place (aka influences on the band) -> talking about similar-sounding bands and/or who they influenced.
So, I guess it's because of how prominent/how often each part is: every band has genres attached and has their sound described -> every band has to be influenced by something or someone -> but not every band can be compared to other bands (and sometimes it's not as historically crucial as the other two parts). Xanarki (talk) 04:24, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

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