Talk:Temple Grandin

In the "Diagnosis" subsection under "Early Life" is the statement, "Grandin was later determined to be an autistic savant." Although the term "savant" is indeed mentioned in the cited articles, there are problems with this statement. First, who was it determined by? The authors of said articles? So-called savant syndrome has no formal medical definition, so I don't think Grandin was formally diagnosed a "savant" by any physician or psychologist. Also, I think each of the cited sources is playing fast and loose with the concept of what a savant even is in the context of disability. Many people (e.g., the authors of these cited articles) seem to think it means any disabled person who is competent, talented or successful in any context, which makes the rather disquieting assumption that incompetence is the default disabled state and we should all be amazed whenever any disabled person is good at something. I propose removing the statement entirely due to poor sourcing (and the aforementioned vague passive phrasing). DoItFastDoItUrgent (talk) 07:19, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

The many WP:MEDRS citations at Savant syndrome argue against your claim that "So-called savant syndrome has no formal medical definition".

• "She has a unique mind, exceptional memory, and savant visuospatial abilities" https://collections.lib.utah.edu/dl_files/cb/99/cb991753b25ddf01fa6f780cca2c0dcacf86f5c6.pdf
• "She is known as a ‘savant,’ or a person who shows characteristic social deficits of autism and yet also has some exceptional abilities. For instance, she has extremely sharp visual acuity." https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/researchers-reveal-first-brain-study-of-temple-grandin/
• Defense behavior and coping in an autistic savant: The story of Temple Grandin, PhD.... Her savantism includes a photographic memory and an extraordinary pictorial ability." https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1993-29947-001
• "Temple Grandin, perhaps the world’s most famous person with autism, allowed scientists to peek into her exceptional brain for the first time in order to better understand the minds of savants. Scans confirmed that Grandin’s brain is, indeed, special... https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-makes-temple-grandins-brain-special-76672628/
• "One theory of autistic savantism suggests that during fetal development or early in life, some developmental abnormality affects the brain’s left side... Grandin’s amygdala, the almond-shaped organ said to play an important role in emotional processing, is larger than normal... Her fusiform gyrus is smaller than normal..." https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/exploring-temple-grandins-brain

For what it is worth, Temple identifies as being an autistic savant. See the "Savant Skills" section of https://autism.org/temple-grandin-inside-asd/ --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 06:45, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

FYI, I have removed the uncited claim from the lead and infobox that Grandin subscribes to the autistic rights movement. She has never explicitly labeled herself a part of said movement and has publicly shared several beliefs over the decades that are generally incompatible with it (e.g., conditional support of applied behavior analysis, conditional support of developing a cure for autism and solidarity with anti-vaccine activists who weaponize ableist stigma against autistic people). If anyone wants to reinsert that claim, I strongly suggest citing an example of Grandin or another reliable source explicitly labeling her part of the autistic rights movement.

I have also removed the claim from the lead and body that Grandin subscribes to the neurodiversity movement. Similar to the claim about the autistic rights movement, Grandin has never explicitly labeled herself a part of said movement. Further, the only section of the article body where this is discussed cites two sources: an interview Grandin did with the website Wrong Planet (in which the word "neurodiversity" is not even mentioned) and an opinion piece from the website Edge.org in which the author ineptly describes Grandin as "an outspoken spokesperson for autism and neurodiversity." Considering the author clearly doesn't understand the formal definition of the word "spokesperson" and is not any kind of subject-matter expert on neurodiversity or the autistic neurotype, this seems a rather flimsy basis for making the claim in the both the lead and body that Grandin is a member of the neurodiversity movement. Again, if anyone wants to restore that explicit language, I would suggest finding a more reliable source than the aforementioned Edge.org opinion piece.

If you disagree with my edit, please participate in the discussion here before considering a revert so that we may reach consensus. Thank you. DoItFastDoItUrgent (talk) 17:24, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

I agree with these removals. This was mostly WP:OR and poorly sourced material. We need better sourcing if that claim is to be readded. Veg Historian (talk) 19:46, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

I don't agree with the removal. I found sources that state that Temple Grandin promotes autistic rights and neurodiversity:

• From Salon: "In her 2022 book Visual Thinkers: The Hidden Gifts of People Who Think in Pictures, Patterns and Abstractions, animal behavior scientist and autism rights advocate Temple Grandin..."
• From Biography.com: "Temple Grandin is a noted animal expert and advocate for autistic populations..."
• From CBC: "Temple Grandin is sounding the alarm on education systems that fail to recognize neurodiversity..."

CatPath ^{meow at me} 04:36, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for listing your sources. I'll address each one below.

Biography.com source

Regarding the autistic rights movement, I don't think this citation supports that claim. Being an "advocate for autistic populations" does not necessarily mean that someone believes in the core tenets of the autistic rights movement. It just means that someone is arguing on behalf of someone else. For example, there are organizations, like Autism Speaks, the Autism Science Foundation and the National Council on Severe Autism, which claim to "advocate" for autistic people, but could not reasonably be described as subscribing to the autistic rights movement (and even, in some cases, openly express antipathy toward said movement).

Regarding the neurodiversity movement, the writer states, "She is a champion of 'neurodiversity' and has opposed the notion of a comprehensive cure for autism." Just as in the paragraph that I modified, the writer is trying to square Grandin's belief that a cure should be pursued for autistic people with highly intensive support needs with the concept of neurodiversity, and you can't square that circle. If Grandin draws a line down the middle of the autistic community and says one side should be celebrated and nurtured and the other side should be cured, then she doesn't believe in neurodiversity. It would be like selecting someone who harbors animosity toward a single racial group and calling them a champion of racial diversity because they accept all other racial groups. Also, given that this article was last updated in 2024 and is still using functioning language to describe Grandin and referring to neurodiversity in quotes (as if it's some novel idea that hasn't quite found its footing), I question whether the uncredited writer is actually a reliable subject-matter expert. It's also, quite frankly, insulting that the writer claims that being a "high-functioning autistic person" allows Grandin to share her life experiences "with rare depth." There are countless autistic people (including those with highly intensive support needs) who have shared detailed accounts of their lives through a variety of mediums; Grandin is not "rare" in that regard (although she arguably may have been decades ago when she was among one of the only openly autistic public figures). Again, I question whether this uncredited writer knows enough about the autistic neurotype or the neurodiversity movement to competently write about either.

CBC source

Regarding the autistic rights movement, there's no explicit mention of it in this article.

Regarding the neurodiversity movement, the article only mentions neurodiversity in a rather roundabout way via the excerpt you shared. I think it's tenuous to run with that one sentence as incontrovertible proof that Grandin is a member of the neurodiversity movement. It should also be noted that the headline misuses the word "neurodiverse" (which likely was an error made by the editorial staff and not by the reporter who wrote the article, but still brings into question the competency and reliability of the source).

Salon source

Regarding the autistic rights movement, the article makes the claim that Grandin is an "autism rights advocate." If we interpret that phrase to mean that the writer is labeling Grandin a member of the autistic rights movement, then we should look at the writer's sourcing, which they helpfully provided. Said sourcing is this 2021 article by the same writer, in which they simply describe Grandin as an "autism advocate." For the reasons stated above in my analysis of the Biography.com source, someone labeling themself or being labeled by someone else as an "advocate" for autistic people does not mean that they necessarily subscribe to the autistic rights movement. Given the weakness of the other two sources discussed above, I don't think this article serves as sufficient justification for us, here on Wikipedia, to explicitly label Grandin a member of the autistic rights movement, even if we accept that that was the intent of the writer.

Regarding the neurodiversity movement, the word "neurodiversity" is only mentioned once in the subheading in, again, a rather roundabout way.

I still believe my edit was appropriate, but would be happy to hear your response to the above points or feedback from any other interested editors. DoItFastDoItUrgent (talk) 18:38, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

I agree with DoItFastDoItUrgent. Autistic rights movement and Neurodiversity have specific meanings, and there has been no citation showing the Grandin specifically supports or opposes either. Showing that Grandin believes that people with autism have rights or that there exists diversity in neurocognition is not at all the same thing. Most people agree with those statements. This really feels like an attempt to find a reason -- any reason -- to assign to a famous autistic person a political opinion that she has never actually expressed.

I also strongly disagree with Grandin being listed in the people section of Template:Autism rights movement. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 09:54, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

I support the suggestion that Grandin should be removed from the template and think you hit the nail on the head regarding Grandin essentially being a blank slate that everyone, from the most staunch opponent of the neurodiversity and autistic rights movements to the most ardent supporter of said movements, can label however they want. "I'm whoever and whatever you want me to be," seems to be her brand, and it's been a rather successful way of appealing to the widest audience possible.

At the end of the day, it's our duty, here on Wikipedia, to make sure that any claims about what movements she follows or what her beliefs are are based on reliable sources, as opposed to vaguely worded articles and poorly written opinion pieces in which the writers don't even grasp the meaning of basic terminology. DoItFastDoItUrgent (talk) 17:53, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

Removed from Template:Autism rights movement --Guy Macon (talk) 19:40, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

I removed "inventor" from the lede because no invention is discussed in this article. (I can't find the string "invent" or "patent" anywhere.) This was reverted by Cerulean Depths with the comment that it is discussed in the article, and giving a patent number. (That number also does not appear in the article.) What am I missing? -- mikeblas (talk) 20:38, 6 September 2025 (UTC)

No, you're right, I got it mixed up with something else she developed. I'm adding in information about her patented invention now. Looks like she did design/develop a lot of systems but only patented the one. Cerulean Depths (talk) 20:48, 6 September 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. -- mikeblas (talk) 21:01, 6 September 2025 (UTC)

Once again we have an editor attempting to make Temple Grandin a member of a political movement that, as far as I can tell, she has been completely silent on -- human rights activism.

As with the last attempt (autistic rights), you could include pretty much everyone on earth with the argument "who would be against autism rights? Who opposes human rights?" but that isn't the same as being part of the Human rights movement, much less being a "human rights activist".

In fact, even on the one right Grandin has spoken about (animal rights), as far as I can tell she hasn't lobbied for any laws (activism), but instead showed that when livestock suffers, profits go down. Her livestock handling system isn't used all over the world because she lobbied for laws requiring it. It is widely used because livestock farmers tried it, saw an increase in profits, and reported their results.

A reminder: WP:TALKDONTREVERT is an English Wikipedia WP:POLICY. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:25, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

I have removed several unsourced "activism" categories from the page. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:32, 20 December 2025 (UTC)