Talk:Tillie Voss

Comments

Just fyi, I plan to review this like I would an WP:FAC. So I will be more thorough, picky, and comprehensive. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:51, 31 July 2026 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments. Will try to address the ones you've left tomorrow. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:44, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
  • BeanieFan11 sorry I am taking forever. My prose review it complete. I will strive to get the source review done today and have my full review wrapped up. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:43, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• he played for an National Football League (NFL)-record 10 teams-->he played for a record 10 National Football League (NFL) teams
  • Done.
• A native of Detroit, Michigan, Voss was a top athlete in high school and college, where he competed in four sports for the University of Detroit: football, basketball, baseball, and track and field.
  • Done.
• Considered, at the peak of his career, both one of the greatest ends in football and one of the best centers in basketball, Voss played many seasons professionally in both sports. In football, Voss played in the NFL for nine seasons and had stints with several other independent teams and a non-playing stint with the NFL's Cleveland Bulldogs. Voss was honored as an All-Pro four times and was a first-team selection in 1923 and 1924, becoming the first first-team All-Pro in the history of the Green Bay Packers. While in Green Bay, he also led the NFL in receiving touchdowns. --> Considered, at the peak of his career, both one of the greatest ends in football and one of the best centers in basketball, Voss played many seasons professionally in both sports. In football, Voss played in the NFL for nine seasons; he also had stints with several other independent teams and a non-playing stint with the NFL's Cleveland Bulldogs. Voss was honored as an All-Pro four times and was a first-team selection in 1923 and 1924, becoming the first first-team All-Pro in the history of the Green Bay Packers. While in Green Bay, he also led the NFL in receiving touchdowns.
• Voss also played for numerous basketball teams in his career. He was a star player for the Fort Wayne Caseys and Detroit Kelly Greens early in his career, before becoming one of the founders of the American Basketball League (ABL) in 1925. At the start of the ABL, Voss served as player-coach for the team Detroit Pulaski, although he did not remain there long. Across five ABL seasons, he played for Detroit Pulaski (1925–1926), the Rochester Centrals (1926), Brooklyn Arcadians (1926), Washington Palace Five (1926–1927), Detroit Cardinals (1927–1928), Fort Wayne Hoosiers (1928) and Chicago Bruins (1928–1930), earning All-ABL honors in 1927. Voss retired from playing after the 1930 season. He later was a welfare worker in Michigan before moving to Florida for the final years of his life. Voss died in 1975 and was posthumously inducted into the University of Detroit Sports Hall of Fame in 1978. --> Voss also played for numerous basketball teams in his career. He was a star player for the Fort Wayne Caseys and Detroit Kelly Greens early in his career, before becoming one of the founders of the American Basketball League (ABL) in 1925. At the start of the ABL, Voss served as player-coach for the team Detroit Pulaski, although he did not remain there long. Across five ABL seasons, he played for seven different teams, earning All-ABL honors in 1927, before retiring after the 1930 season. He later was a welfare worker in Michigan before moving to Florida for the final years of his life. Voss died in 1975 and was posthumously inducted into the University of Detroit Sports Hall of Fame in 1978.
• I would recommend combining paragraph 1 and 2 in the lead, but leave it to you to make that decision.
  • Done.

Early life

• The first three sentences all say "Detroit", and there are five instances of "Detroit" in this paragraph. Is there any way to combine some of these, like being born and growing up in the same city. Or do we really need to say that the "University of Detroit" is in Detroit?
  • Oops lol. Trimmed it to three mentions of "Detroit".
• "and continued in college" - continued what? Education or athletics?
  • Well both, but I changed it to He was an accomplished athlete in high school and continued competing in sports in college at the University of Detroit.
• "star athlete" would need some very reliable sources to support. Can we say something more objective instead? "accomplished"?
  • I put it to say "accomplished".

College career

• in football, basketball, baseball and track and field I would add the Oxford comma after baseball
  • Done.
• He became a varsity college athlete while still a high school student. can you explain what this means or how it happened?
• At Detroit, Voss was a top member of the Detroit Tigers football team in 1915, playing tackle.[6] He was also a top placekicker in college.-->At Detroit, Voss was a top member of the Tigers football team in 1915, playing tackle.[6] He was also a top placekicker in college. you duplicate "top" which isn't really a good descriptive word. Also, is the placekicker part just about 1915, or for his whole college career? Can you combine these sentences?
• He led the team to a record of 8–1, outscoring opponents by a margin-->He led the team to a record of 8–1, with Detroit outscoring opponents by a margin
  • Done.
• Among his performances that year were-->Among his notable performances that year were
  • Done.
• earning recognition as "about the best pivot man in the city or state" add "being" after "as"
  • Done.
• The next year, he served as the team's captain, making him the first person in the history of the University of Detroit to serve as team captain in two major sports; he led the 1916–17 basketball team with an average of 12.9 points per game.
  • Done.
• in the U.S. Army Tank Corps in World War I.-->in the U.S. Army Tank Corps during World War I.
  • Done.
• He was reported to be an All-American selection honored as All-Western for the 1919 season. I am confused by what this sentence means.
• he was allowed to receive a fifth varsity letter in the sport from an exemption due to the war.-->he received a fifth varsity letter in the sport as an exemption due to the war.
  • Done.
• He scored 752 points with the Detroit basketball team, then an all-time record, which stood until the late 1930s-->He scored 752 points with the Detroit basketball team, a school record that stood until the late 1930s
  • Done.

Professional football career

• Voss signed with the Detroit Tigers of the APFA for the 1921 season.[1] He was also the team's vice president.[36] Voss joined the Tigers to play at tackle and end.-->Voss signed with the Detroit Tigers of the APFA for the 1921 season to play at tackle and end; he was also the team's vice president.
• He was selected second-team All-Pro by George Halas for provide context for who Halas was and why he was selecting All-Pros.
• Independents to the Toledo Maroons for Bob Phelan, and he caught a 35-yard touchdown pass i-->Independents to the Toledo Maroons for Bob Phelan. He caught a 35-yard touchdown pass
• Voss was a Press-Gazette first-team All-Pro for the 1924 season, becoming the first first-team All-Pro in Packers history-->Voss was a Press-Gazette first-team All-Pro for the 1924 season, becoming the first Packers' player to receive this recognition.
• he was requested to join the Chicago Bears, but was unable - what does this mean? The Bears asked him to join?
• He was considered one of their star players and appeared in 12 of 13 games,-->He was identified one of their star players and appeared in 12 of 13 games,
• sixth place in the league, while all of their losses were by a margin of one score-->sixth place in the league; all of their losses were by a margin of one score
• However, he played his first game I don't think you need the "however"
• the 1930 season due to severe injuries. "severe injuries" is the actual quote from the newspaper. Since this seems a little sensational to me, I would either add quotes or changing the words to something a little more neutral.
• Across his professional career, which spanned from 1921 to 1930 in addition to a season in 1918,-->Across his professional career, which spanned from 1918 to 1930,
• Voss's 10 NFL teams played for remains an all-time record, since tied by Shayne Graham. link to List of NFL players by teams played for
• two on fumble returns and one rushing. add comma after "returns"

Professional basketball career

• which was defending middle west is "middle west" a proper noun? Should it be capitalized? Or is it just referring to a geographic area?
• and was leading scorer in a Detroit victory missing "the" after "was"
• he scored 126 points, more than a fifth of all of the team's points, while he did not score in only one of 17 games -->he scored 126 points and scored in all but one game. (I think scoring slightly more than a fifth of the team's total points isn't worth mentioning.
• claimed world champion this could benefit from a footnote on why it's "claimed"
• he also made appearances for the Port Clinton, Ohio, American Legion team-->he also made appearances for an American legion team from Port Clinton, Ohio,
• citing that Voss "failed to gain his true-->"claiming" or "stating" probably sounds better than "citing"
• last stretch of the season, and was credited comma not needed
  • Done.
• he inaugural ABL championship, but Brooklyn lost the series. comma not needed
• Voss was initially to rejoin the Arcadians for the 1926–27 season before the team folded, the phrasing is weird here. Did he rejoin and then they folded, or he wasn't able to join them before they folded?
• and it was decided he was to stay at Washington. state who decided it? The coach? Try to convert to active voice
• and he thus moved to the Fort Wayne change "thus" to "then"
• At 6 feet 3 inches (1.91 m) and over 200 pounds (91 kg), Voss was considered large in basketball and his size was considered to have given him an advantage-->At 6 feet 3 inches (1.91 m) and over 200 pounds (91 kg), Voss was large for a basketball player of his era, with local newspapers stating that his size had given him an advantage in the sport.
• As in football, Voss was known for his speed in basketball despite his size,-->As in football, Voss was known for his speed, despite his size

Personal life

• During his sports career Voss also worked as lifeguard at Detroit beaches during summers. recommend "athletic" instead of "sports"
• bore the appearances of what a life guard ought to be should you have [sic] after "life guard"?
• After his retirement from professional football, recommend "Following" instead of "after" to avoid consecutive sentences starting with "after"
  • Done.
• local newspapers and figures "figures" seems a bit weird or clumsy. I would recommend just sticking to "newspapers" or say something to combine both like "local commentators"
• Voss worked for a Works Progress Administration (WPA) program. this comes across somewhat suddenly and is a short stubby sentence. Any idea of when he worked there or what he did?
• In 1940, he was seriously injured after being stabbed, when he intervened in a fight between two other employees, but recovered. --> In 1940, he was seriously injured after being stabbed when he intervened in a fight between two other employees.

Photos

• File:Tillie Voss, Detroit.png: you are going to get dinged on this one at WP:FAC since although the photo was obviously taken before 1931, you can't be sure that it wasn't first published after that. Can you find the original source, like maybe a yearbook?
• File:211002-Rock-Island-football-ad.jpg: free and clear, but would be beneficial if you could add the summary table on Commons and include a link to the newspaper clipping where this photo comes from.
• File:Sternaman-Joe-291013.jpg: free and clear, but would be beneficial if you could add the summary table on Commons and include a link to the newspaper clipping where this photo comes from.
• File:Tillie Voss, basketball.png: can you add a link to a clipping of the photo, so it can be viewed by anyone?
• File:Founders of the American Basketball League.png: can you add a link to a clipping of the photo, so it can be viewed by anyone? I would add "The Times-Union" as the author.
• File:Tillie Voss, 1927, Elmira Gazette.png: I would add "Elmira Star-Gazette" as the author in the summary table

References

• All references appear reliable for what is being sourced. 156 out of 189 are historic newspapers. Other major sources include sports databases to verify game counts and those type of statistical items. Also a few books.
• All citations appear to be consistently formatted. All normal websites have access dates. Clippings from Newspapers.com include consistent and sufficient information. Books have ISBN and page number references.
• Spot checks: I will perform spot checks on these 40 random Newspapers.com citations: 5, 8, 10, 13, 14, 19, 26, 31, 37, 42, 50, 54, 59, 62, 65, 71, 76, 83, 88, 92, 95, 98, 102, 106, 112, 115, 120, 126, 133, 137, 140, 144, 151, 157, 162, 169, 173, 178, 181, and 184
  • Will you check Ref 144. I don't see where that sentence is supported in the source.

Awesome job BeanieFan11. Learned a lot and really interesting subject! My review is complete. These are primarily recommendations, so feel free to disagree. TO make it easier, please feel free to not reply to each comment, either just replying to comments that you need clarification on or that you did not implement, and I will assume (and verify) that the others were implemented. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:03, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• Just noting for the record that I will be responding to each of the points, just so I remember myself which ones I have already implemented. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:26, 20 August 2026 (UTC)