User talk:WandaL1710

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Please help me with... I have written a Wiki entry for an internationally-known musician. I have cited excellent sources, have inline references, etc.. I hope a volunteer editor can look it over and help me upload it. I just need help with the technical aspects of publishing it. Thank you so much! WandaL1710 (talk) 05:09, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, but nobody can look it over if you don't tell us where it is. There is nothing in your edit history, so you must have created it under a different user account or anonymous IP address, or perhaps you wrote it off-Wiki in a word processor or similar? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:37, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Hello, and thank you for answering. Yes, I wrote it in Word of- Wiki because I did not want it published yet. I’m so new to this process that I don’t even know the first steps on where and how to upload it! I didn’t want to make it go “live” until an experienced Wiki writer/editor looked it over. I would be grateful for any help. Thank you! WandaL1710 (talk) 14:55, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

You need to post it somewhere on our servers, and submit it for pre-publication review, for anyone to be able to take a look. You can do so in your sandbox (User:WandaL1710/sandbox), or you can head over to the Articles for Creation project and use the wizard there at WP:YFA. Either way, you can just copy & paste the content from your Word document, it won't have all the fancy wiki markup etc., but those can always be added later. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:03, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

How nice of you to answer and educate me. I will do that today, and hopefully you and others will look it over. I’m assuming that the links and references embedded in my Word document will transfernover to my “Sandbox?” Thank you. WandaL1710 (talk) 15:10, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Probably not; linking (internal or external) works a bit differently in wiki code, which is different from the XML used in Word. But at least this will allow us to view the content.

Actually, it's probably best that you don't submit your content for review just yet, it will just be summarily declined because of all these issues. Just copypaste it into your sandbox, and let me know so I'll go and take a look myself. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:30, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Hello, and again I thank you. I copy/pasted my Word document in my Sandbox. You’re correct, none of my embedded links came through. Kinda sux, as I linked to credible sources, etc., but at least there’s a draft for helpful editors to look at.

Does it really take 2 months for Wikipedia to approve such entries? Yipes!

Again, thank you. WandaL1710 (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Also, at what point do I have to go in an re-embed all these in-text links and re-enter the URLs for cited References. My Word doc does have them all embedded, but they just did not come through to the copy I pasted into my "Sandbox." Thanks again! WandaL1710 (talk) 16:31, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Okay, this could be tricky... Session musicians and band members with no major solo career tend to be the hidden heroes of the music industry, but because of their 'hiddenness' they often struggle to establish their own notability in the sense that Wikipedia requires.

There are two alternative ways that notability could be demonstrated:

1. General notability per WP:GNG; this applies to any subject, and requires significant coverage, directly of the subject, in multiple secondary sources that are both reliable and entirely independent of the subject. This excludes all sorts of sources, such as anything written or said by the subject such as interviews, as well as anything based on press releases or other publicity materials.
2. Subject-specific notability per WP:MUSICBIO; this requires substantial career achievements, of the type described in that guideline (there are 12 criteria, and only one of them needs to be met).

And here's the tricky bit: any media coverage that you want to count towards GNG must be specifically about this person, not about a band he was a member of, or an album he played in. Similarly, he would have to satisfy in his own right the MUSICBIO criteria, for example a Grammy (criterion 8) would have to be in his name, not just that he contributed towards something that won the award.

Notability is 'the biggie', if you cannot show that Cummings is notable, there is nothing that can be done, and no amount of editing can fathom notability out of thin air. Conversely, if you can show that he meets one or the other of the above notability guidelines, that's most of the battle done, and the rest is just fiddling with the details (which can actually amount to quite a lot of work, but at least then you'll know it'll be worth the effort).

So study those two notability guidelines, and consider carefully and objectively which, if either, could be met. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:41, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

PS: I meant to say also that there was an article at Danny Cummings, from 2007 until 2020 when it was deleted as non-notable. That of course doesn't mean that he couldn't have become notable in the five years since that was deleted, but it does tell us that in the 13 years that the article was up, nobody could provide sufficient evidence of notability. Which does not sound promising. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:45, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Also, I noticed Danny Cummings has an entry (sort-of) here: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Cummings Someone must think he's "notable!" WandaL1710 (talk) 16:52, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Each language version of Wikipedia is a completely separate project with their own rules and requirements. If the Italian Wikipedia has accepted an article on Cummings (whatever 'accepted' means over there, I'm not familiar with their moderating systems), that is entirely their call, and has no bearing on whether one will be accepted here at the English Wikipedia. What I can tell you is that our inclusion criteria are stricter than on any other language version (that I'm aware of, at least), therefore it often happens that an article is accepted into another language version but declined here. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:13, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

FWIW, there are also articles on him in the Polish, Swedish, Norwegian and Spanish Wikipedias. They look like they may be translations of the deleted English one, and created some 15+ years ago. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:16, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, I wills tudy those elements. But have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Palmer

Phil Palmer, a guitarist, is in the very same category as Dan Cummings, the subject of my Wiki page. No real difference between the two. (I could name many other examples.) I should note that I have ABSOLUTELY NO RELATIONSHIP, personal or otherwise, to Dan Cummings. What say ye now on the subject of Cummings' "notability?' Thank you. WandaL1710 (talk) 16:49, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that is indeed a very common response, the so-called WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument; alas, it is a fallacy. There are any number of problematic articles among the 7m+ in the English Wikipedia, but that does not mean we should create more problems. Many articles pre-date our current policies and guidelines (the Palmer one was created in 2006), and such legacy articles tend to remain, warts and all, because as an entirely volunteer-led project, nobody has simply yet got around to sorting them out. All new articles must comply with current standards. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Ah, wow, all of that is interesting. I obviously did not realize it was this hard to publish an entry. And obviously I did not know a Cummings Wiki page had been created in English but had since been deleted. (Could you send me the link to the deleted page by any chance?) Naturally I don’t want to go afoul of Wiki standards. I read up on the WP:MUSICBIO you recommended, and Cummings satisfies at least TWO of those listed criteria (#6, #10. Is there any method by which a page writer like myself makes his case to the Wiki gods that the person deserves to have an (English) page? Thank you. WandaL1710 (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Crit. 6 is about an ensemble, not an individual musician, so wouldn't apply here; it basically refers to 'supergroups' and the like.

As for crit. 10, can you tell me what you have in mind?

There are no 'Wiki gods', there are just editors like you and me; some of us have more experience, others less; some may have access to additional tools or permissions; but we're all part of the community, and it's a very democratic one.

If you prefer to create an article draft and submit it for a pre-publication review rather than discuss notability etc., you're very welcome to do that, of course. I'm not trying to stand in your way, I'm only trying to help you avoid wasting your time and effort on something that doesn't have legs. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:07, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Greetings again. I appreciate your extensive time today. Also appreciate your good warnings about not spending time on something that "might not have legs." (Welp, too late. I already compiled and researched this topic. Might as well roll the dice when it's ready to roll!)

Criterion #6 at WP:MUSICBIO states: ...is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles." This DOES apply to Cummings because the definition of "ensemble" is open to interpretation. He was a member of Dire Straits, Wham!, and George Michael's band -- all for several years, both recording and touring. All of those mentioned could be construed as "ensembles."

Criterion #10 has to do with performing music for a work of media that is notable, such as a network television show (he has, I referenced "NYPD Blue" among others here [scroll down partways]: https://milesbould.com/about and her: https://www.discogs.com/release/30948097-Danny-Cummings-Miles-Bould-Rhythm-Of-Life-HitSound-Producer-Series-Volume-2). He also was the percussionist on a movie soundtrack, see "Credits" here: https://www.markknopfler.com/music/a-shot-at-glory/

Cummings also has music licensed at BMI, some performed by other artists: https://repertoire.bmi.com/Search/Catalog?num=W%252bAt7f4B%252f3Z3%252fXS3ElChgA%253d%253d&cae=YO0HedHMatLb45JzS23DVw%253d%253d&partType=WriterList&search=%7B%22Main_Search_Text%22%3A%22Danny%20Cummings%22%2C%22Sub_Search_Text%22%3A%22%22%2C%22Main_Search%22%3A%22Writer%2FComposer%22%2C%22Sub_Search%22%3Anull%2C%22Search_Type%22%3A%22all%22%2C%22View_Count%22%3A20%2C%22Page_Number%22%3A1%2C%22Part_Type%22%3Anull%2C%22Part_Id%22%3Anull%2C%22Part_Id_Sub%22%3Anull%2C%22Part_Name%22%3A%22CUMMINGS%20DANNY%22%2C%22Part_Cae%22%3Anull%2C%22Original_Search%22%3Anull%2C%22Ip_Address%22%3A%2275.25.49.137%22%2C%22Pwa_Indicator%22%3Anull%2C%22DisclaimerViewed%22%3Anull%7D&resetPageNumber=True&partIdSub=YO0HedHMatLb45JzS23DVw%253d%253d

So sorry for the long URLs.

My final three questions of the day:

1) I have a couple of links to YouTube entries which are the only places to be found on the Internet to show his live work, for example with George Michael. Not otherwise availble on DVD or a link to a broadcast (e.g., 2012 London Olympics Closing Ceremony or 1996 appearance on MTV-Unplugged). But when I try to click "Preview" it raises a red flag for YouTube refs being blacklisted. What to do?

2) Today I embedded all the links in the narrative/main page. You can see that if you can access my "Sandbox." Now I have to do the same for that entire long discography? Eegads. You're right -- a lot of work!

3) How do I link to photos of the musician that I have found elsewhere that have no copyright? Just link to the website(s) I found them on?

I was contacted by a wikipedia volunteer "mentor" today, but feel super grateful to you for YOUR kind assistance. I will NEVER EVER try adding a Wiki page ever again, but I thibnk I could at least caution others as you have cautioned me that it's an extensive process. THANKS SO MUCH! WandaL1710 (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Greetings! Again, I am appreciative of your assistance. I have finished my draft of a Wiki article for UK percussionist/drummer Danny Cummings. All links embedded in the narrative and Discography, and good references. (I think the latter needs formatting. Where could I go for help with that?) I have received permission from a photographer to use 2 photos, and I will send that permission in to Wikimedia. Could you look over my article or should I just submit it for its first review? Thanks again, Cheers! WandaL1710 (talk) 04:34, 28 November 2025 (UTC)

You need to remove all the inline external links, of which there are many; they are not allowed at all. You may be able to convert at least some of them to inline citations, which are required to support the contents throughout. See WP:REFB for advice on that.

IMO, the discography section is very long (and incorrectly formatted, which makes it even longer). If I were you, I'd take the out altogether, because they're not his records, they're records he played on. (If there are any where he is 'in the title', so to speak, by all means do list those.)

When you're ready, you can submit it for review. I'm a bit involved now, so probably should recuse myself from reviewing it. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:07, 28 November 2025 (UTC)

Greetings, and Thank You for your assistance and advice. I embedded the inline references in the narrative just as I saw (many) other musician pages have done. I honestly don’t see how this musician’s draft page differs at all from many who DO have pages already published with the exact same pedigree. I am aware of the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argumemt you made. Many musicians who have Wikis have only “played on” records that were not “theirs.” I guess this is a fine line in deciding who gets a Wiki entry, and who does not. Still, I am extremely grateful for your help and think recusal is probably the way to go. I will roll the dice and see what happens. Happy Holidays! WandaL1710 (talk) 15:23, 28 November 2025 (UTC)

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Please help me with... Greetings and happy holiday season to all. I'd appreciate an experienced eye (er,, pair of eyes, actually!) to just look over the References section of my draft article Draft: Daniel John Cummings. I want to ddelete the written references and leave the article with the inline citations and the carets that correspond. But I'm afraid to "whack" all that. I have been using the Footnotes method ^[1] tags. I hope one of you fabulous experts can help. I'm getting ready to publish my [first ever] draft and want to be sure I've got this right. Thank you! WandaL1710 (talk) 21:41, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

• Comment: The draft is actually located at User:WandaL1710/sandbox Happy Editing -- IAmChaos 22:30, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes! of course, these all appear to be correct, and to add references you can use the shortcut {{reflist}} I would also be happy to rename it to Draft:Daniel John Cummings if you would like?
Cheers, r f q i i ^talk! 00:31, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

You can now find your draft at

Draft:Daniel John Cummings
r f q i i ^talk! 00:34, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I have also cleaned it up, but kept your work the same but added the reference list and made headings. :) r f q i i ^talk! 00:42, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Greetings, Wiki helper! Thank you for reading my message and for responding. Please could you change the title BACK to Draft:Danny Cummings …. and here’s the reason why. This percussionist/drummer is mentioned on several existing Wiki entries in the music sphere as “Danny Cummings,” although he heretofore has had no entry of his own. I expect that those pages will direct to this one once it’s accepted (and I hope it will!). Thank you for your help and for reviewing my work….and thanks for not “biting the newcomer!” Happy holiday season to you! WandaL1710 (talk) 01:37, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, you can now find your draft at:

Draft:Danny Cummings
Merry Christmas!
r f q i i ^talk! 01:41, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for that. As you saw, I have two photos accompanying this (draft) entry, having received permission to use from the original photographers, and both went through the Wikimedia Commons approval process. How do I get them to the top of my draft, like I see on others’ entries? Second, I see that Wiki entries have various categories (e.g., “People born in 1957” and the like). How/when does this happen with mine? Is there anything that I need to do?

Thanks again for cleaning up my work. ((Hug)) WandaL1710 (talk) 01:48, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

If you find the Preferences tab, and go to Gadgets, find HotCat, this is a tool to add categories. Also, you can try using {{infobox person}} to add an image at the top. I'll add a baseline and you can edit from there :)
r f q i i ^talk! 01:55, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I have added an infobox, can you update it? Should be pretty easy. r f q i i ^talk! 02:01, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Now you’re speaking a little Greek to me….I’m a newbie, after all!

LOL! I thought the Categories bit was something that Wikipedia did on its own, not something that I had to add and populate on my own. I will explore. Yes, I would love it if the two photos loaded at Commons would appear at the top of my entry, thanks for that help (the black shirt one should go first IMHO). Lastly, how long does it take for editors to approve a page such as the one I drafted? Months??? WandaL1710 (talk) 02:01, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

There is currently a backlog drive, so it should be the lowest it will be for the next 6 months so I would say submit it now. If you're lucky, it could be accepted within the next 24 hours so check back frequently.
r f q i i ^talk! 02:05, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

P.S. You can only load one photo into an infobox.
r f q i i ^talk! 02:06, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Check out: Jordan Fish Two very nice photos there. How’d they do that? (That’s what I was hoping to do!)

Thank you for your continued help. I know the Discography is long but I thought better for it to be meaty than wimpy, and the Wiki Powers That Be can pare it if they feel it’s justified.

I’d love to submit this ASAP, but I still don’t know how to add to the categories, etc. WandaL1710 (talk) 02:12, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I would be happy to add a few :) r f q i i ^talk! 02:14, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Please, yes! To include: Instruments: Percussion, drums, congas —- that would be lovely.

I would like to retitle the photo in the Infobox as Cummings in action or Cummings in concert

British musicians would be another category I could see fitting. Musicians from Sheffield, England another, perhaps? I don’t rightly know how to do these properly. WandaL1710 (talk) 02:19, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Done r f q i i ^talk! 02:17, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I also see one dead external link (don’t know why, it was working yesterday)…then I could click Submit draft I suppose…? WandaL1710 (talk) 02:20, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Sorry to bother again: I tried to access the Draft in my Sandbox and don't see the listed References section. I need to correct a dead link for Reference 4. Now I can't see any of my external references. Number 4 should be 4. Angelico, Chris (29 May 2002). The Gilbert and Sullivan Archive: Who Was Who at https://www.gsarchive.net/whowaswho/C/CummingsLiam.htm. Retrieved 1 November 2025.

This is the working link. Could you possibly add that to the Reference list I can no longer see?

Thanks! [[[hugs]]] WandaL1710 (talk) 02:31, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Actually, If you just go to the bottom you should find a references section r f q i i ^talk! 02:41, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

It's working now r f q i i ^talk! 02:45, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I’m in my Sandbox for [Draft:Danny Cummings] and I do not see the References section. I do see the inline references superscript in the narrative, but no References section. And I’m scared! WandaL1710 (talk) 02:56, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

1. Click
   Draft:Danny Cummings
   
2. Go to the contents
3. Click References

r f q i i ^talk! 03:02, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Hiya: Yes, I can see it in the Preview, I cannot see it in my Sandbox “Edit Source”….so when I submit this for review, I’m afraid the references won’t appear. WandaL1710 (talk) 03:21, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

BTW, have a look now! Wow! Thank you soooo much! WandaL1710 (talk) 03:22, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Now I Don’t see the button to submit for review! Gah!

I used to see it at the bottom of Edit Source (the working draft) but now I don’t! What do I hit to send for review….or is it because you set a “redirect” that I now can’t see the submit button? WandaL1710 (talk) 03:37, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Grrrr! I am finished creating a page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Danny_Cummings (it's in my Sandbox @WandaL1710 and now I cannot find a way to submit it for review! Regardless of whether I'm in "Edit Source" mode or "Preview"/Read mode, I cannot find a button or link to send it to the Wiki Gods for (I hope!) publication. Thoughts, anyone? (My mentor doesn't respond...sorry!) Thank you very much, all, and Season's Greetings! WandaL1710 (talk) 03:52, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

No problem just place {{subst:submit}} at the top of Draft:Danny Cummings. :) sorry for making you wait!
r f q i i ^talk! 06:09, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello rfqii — Yes! I added that tag and sent it in to the Wiki Gods! Thank you for that {{AfC submission|||ts=20251214071525|u=WandaL1710|ns=3}} tip; looks like it worked. It would be a nice Christmas gift to see it approved…but perhaps even more satisfying to see it evolve over time. I want to thank you most sincerely for guiding me today. We cannot pay our fellow editors/volunteers, but I think the best way to repay the help is to “pay it forward,” and I certainly will as I, too, grow and evolve as a Wikipedia contributor. Thanks again, and have a much blessed holiday! [[[hugs]]] WandaL1710 (talk) 07:15, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

The best way to pay other editors are Wikipedia:Barnstars, these are awards that Wikipedia's give to one another, so here is one for you!

		The Excellent New Editor's Barnstar A new editor on the right path
		You are on your way to being a great editor. r f q i i talk! 07:22, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Feel free to paste this on your user page (click the link to create it) Find others at Wikipedia:Barnstars r f q i i ^talk! 07:22, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Danny Cummings. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 20:10, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

Got it, and thanks. I will endeavour to make it better. Cheers. WandaL1710 (talk) 20:54, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Danny Cummings. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

I don’t understand any of this, despite my reading the relevant help articles here on Wiki. I am super frustrated and disappointed. I especially don’t understand what “external references” there are to remove in the main narrative of my draft. There are embedded inline references to other Wiki pages, and then there are footnoted, numbered references where indicated at end of sentences when warranted. Are you specifically wanting me to truncate the over 200 entries in the Discography section? Yes, much of that is external links. I’m sorry, I fail to understand what needs to be done to make the entry acceptable. Thanks again. WandaL1710 (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Danny Cummings. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 08:35, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Without resorting to the oft-cited WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument, please explain to me how several other members of the Dire Straits band — including ex-drummers Pick Withers and Terry Williams — get their own Wikipedia pages but Dire Straits ex-drummer, Danny Cummings, who has gone on to play with more top acts that those two (as I cited), cannot. Both use AllMusic and Discogs as citation sources (and so do other ex members of the band, I could list them if you’d like?) and they’ve been moved to the Article sphere. When a record exists that the musician has played on, but it has not yet been immortalized by a freestanding Wikipedia page, what is an editor to do to prove, as s/he must, that the musician played on it except to use a source like Discogs (the largest & most comprehensive on the Internet) or AllMusic?

I am trying, respectfully, to do as asked but I feel the review goalposts keep moving.

Your initial denial claimed the draft wasn’t “encyclopaedic” enough in tone. Per your suggestion, I revised the draft and I haven’t heard another word from you about that matter, so I assume the tone is now acceptable.

Your initial denial claimed the main body draft cited forbidden external references. Unless you can give me a specific example of one that is not already a footnote, I assume that criticism has been addressed.

Paring down the Discography section, by definition, dilutes the subject’s “Notability.” This particular drummer/percussionist has more (a LOT more!) citable disc entries than either of the other two ex-Dire Straits drummers I mentioned above.

I am truly aiming to do better and revise according to good suggestions. Thank you for your continued assistance. WandaL1710 (talk) 14:43, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

You have around 200 external links the first one for example in the discography section is https://www.allmusic.com/album/rab-noakes-1972--mw0000843223#credits we simply don't use external links in this manner as you have been told numerous times. Theroadislong (talk) 14:50, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, how, exactly, does an editor “prove” that a musician played on that album when the one and only citation that proves that performance is an AllMusic entry? (One which clearly shows the drummer played on the record.) Really, every other musician’s Wikipedia page lists citations from AllMusic, Discogs, and like sources, because they are comprehensive. (Those sources WP even have Wikipedia pages of their own!) Hope you’re having a nice day! WandaL1710 (talk) 14:55, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

I asked you, respectfully, to show me IN THE MAIN BODY OF MY DRAFT where you see “external references” that aren’t footnoted. Can you see any? I believe I have taken them all out. Thank you! WandaL1710 (talk) 14:56, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

You are clearly misunderstanding the problem, the "Discography" section is in the body of the draft, it contains around 200 external links, we don't use external links in the body of an article you don't need to "prove" that he played on records that does NOT contribute to any notability we need significant coverage about him in reliable independent sources. You can get other opinions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk. Theroadislong (talk) 15:03, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I kept saying “main body” of the draft, not “Discography,” to keep those two sections clear. But I understand you now, thanks. As I understand it, for a Wikipedia entry to be acceptable, all claims have to be substantiated: if the editor says something in a sentence, s/he has to prove it by a verifiable citation. Sometimes, as with a musician who is part of an ensemble (e.g., like Dire Straits), the only way to “prove” the musician’s contribution to it is by citing Discogs and/or AllMusic. As I’ve pointed out, we’d be hard-pressed to find a Wiki page for a musician that does NOT use either, or both, of these as a citation, since it lists the artist/work/contributing musician/instrument(s) played. What to do? What is more important to the Wiki gods: verifiability or use of a source they don’t like? It’s a serious question for us article writers. Cheers! WandaL1710 (talk) 15:21, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Your recent article submission has been rejected and cannot be resubmitted. If you have further questions, you can ask at the Articles for creation help desk or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help. The reason left by Star Mississippi was: This topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia. The comment the reviewer left was: I do not find any evidence Cummings meets musical notability.

Star Mississippi 00:47, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

Did you review the most recent draft of this proposed article? I revised it per suggestions for improvement made y the initial reviewer, @Theroadislong. I believe my latest draft and your rejection crossed in cyberspace. Please let me know. Thanks. WandaL1710 (talk) 01:03, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

I did. Adding more sources does not address the quality, which do not support notability. Star Mississippi 01:14, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

I didn’t “add more sources,” I deleted external references (deleted over 100 discography citations to which this musician contributed), which was the major reason for deletion by the initial reviewer. He never even mentioned “notability” in his reasons for deletion.

I’m at a real loss here, and the Wiki standards goalposts keep moving as regards this article. If this is a major concern for you reviewers, respectfully, why did @Theroadislongnot raise it in his first decline on 14 December? But since it’s been raised, let me address your WP:NMUSICIAN concerns:

1) The subject musician has been the subject of at least two independent, non-self published, works, i.e. interviews in two independent drumming sites (my Refs. #5, 23 satisfy Criterion 1);

2) Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour or a tour in at least one sovereign country (my Refs. #12, 15, 16, 19, 41 all satisfy Criterion 4);

3) Is a "member of an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles." As I noted in my Draft, the subject musician has been percussionist/drummer/vocalist for Dire Straits, Wham!, Mark Knopfler, George Michael, etc......all of whom are "notable" and have entries on Wikipedia (and as such satisfies Criterion 6);

4) "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a national television show...or notable film..." (my Refs. 37, 38 satisfy Criterion 10)

Lastly, I wish to note that, by my count, over 20 current Wikipedia pages would redirect to my article were it to be accepted and published. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Danny+Cummings&title=Special%3ASearch&ns0=1) It is odd that this musician does not yet have a well-curated, direct Wikipedia entry, but all his fellow musicians from these bands do, and they are all of the very same pedigree. And don’t meet the “notability” criteria, either. Please don't quote WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS to me; if a comparable musician in the same ensemble has a page, they all should.

Thank you. WandaL1710 (talk) 01:26, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

What is your connection with Cummings, @WandaL1710?

These articles would not be redirected to Cummings, and having more than 40 sources does not make someone notable when they are not of the depth or quality needed. @Theroadislong and @DoubleGrazing both addressed notability with you, and no one is moving the goalposts. Without being notable, nothing else about a subject matters. In your opinion, what are the three best sources that establish notabiity for Cummings? Star Mississippi 02:04, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

You obviously did not read, or did not comprehend, my message (above). It answers every one of your questions.

I am no longer interested in contributing to Wikipedia. It is a frustrating exercise and I will not be participating anymore. Thanks to everybody for their time and happy holidays! WandaL1710 (talk) 03:09, 22 December 2025 (UTC)