Talk:Backstroke of the West

• ... that in a Chinese bootleg DVD of Revenge of the Sith, Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi are part of the "Hopeless Situation Presbyterians"?

• • ALT1: ... that in a Chinese bootleg DVD of Revenge of the Sith, the names of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi are mistranslated as "Allah Gold" and "Ratio Tile"? Source: https://www.slashfilm.com/548507/revenge-of-the-sith-dubbed/ "... and Anakin Skywalker being called Allah Gold, ..." https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=30425 "Ratio tile, the wish power are together with you" (="Obi Wan, may the Force be with you")"
  • ALT2: ... that poor machine translation in a Chinese bootleg DVD of Revenge of the Sith causes the characters to say "fuck" at random? Source: https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/revenge-sith-backstroke-west-bootleg "Even in the first few minutes, Obi-Wan's out here dropping F-bombs at random droids. A more civilized age, my ass."
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: sorted in order of preference, most -> least!

Kinnimeyu (talk) 06:25, 1 April 2026 (UTC).

• Magnificent work. Expanded from redirect within the appropriate window. Long enough, neutral, and presentable. No QPQ required. Copyvio Detector brings up only quotations. Kinnimeyu, can you comment on the use of Winterson's blog? Articles at DYK are required to be based on reliable sources, and this appears not to qualify since it is a self-published source. If you have any thoughts on whether it would qualify for an exception, please share; otherwise, I recommend seeing if you can remove it. Other sources used are sufficiently reliable. (Language Log, for example, is a blog but one published by a recognized authority and thus qualifies under WP:EXPERTSPS.) As for hooks, ALT0 and ALT1 are both interesting (with my strong preference for ALT0, which had me doubling over with chuckling) and are appropriately sourced. (I've taken the liberty of removing unnecessary wikilinks from the hooks.) The source for ALT2 doesn't call it a machine translation or even a poor translation (it is the latter, obviously, but it's not in the source), and at least one other source in the article casts doubt on whether it is a machine translation, so I think we can drop ALT2 unless you'd like to workshop it a little more. Let's address the Winterson's blog issue and this should be good to go. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:23, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• Extra comment: once approved, I would recommend holding this for May 4. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• hi @Dclemens1971: i use winterson's blog under an exception for WP:ABOUTSELF because inverse's article, a reliable source per WP:RS, independently verifies him as the person who discovered & documented the bootleg. his blog, and the later soundcloud interview with him, are used for the timeline of his own (unexceptional) actions. the use of the blog itself is entirely separated from the bootleg's reception and legacy. drop ALT2, but i do hope ALT0 can stay! i'm fine with holding off on a front page DYK until may 4. Kinnimeyu (talk) 19:35, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
  • I think that's a reasonable use of the self-published source, and the article does rely on it in a narrow way, so I'm comfortable approving it. ALT0 and ALT1 approved. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
    • can "both" in ALT0 be removed so it says "Revenge of the Sith, Anakin Skywalker ..." instead of "Revenge of the Sith, both Anakin Skywalker ..."? i was trying to avoid MOS:SOB there at first. Kinnimeyu (talk) 19:43, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
      • Yep. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:45, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

There is a Fandom wiki which is a reasonable reference; it does some humorous interpretation of the source, but is quite academic. Most of note is the original script (archived in 2013) as Winterson presented it.

Of particular note is the "translations" section, of course. I'll adjust this to be more curt so it can incorporate some of the more interesting part of the machine translation. Anakin, for example, is reinterpreted in transliteration, so after machine translation, Allah Gold is later The Peaceful Is Willing To. (Not to be confused with Reaching The West of Reaches, of course!)

There are also certain repeated phrases such as "on the hoof" and "[the good] elephant" which may be notable as an artefact of translation.

Having rewatched the Backstroke dub twice in the past few days, this is a beautiful April 1 gift. Many thanks for the hard work in making it! Mia ^{a data witch!  talk · contribs} 23:07, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

hi, i can't use the fandom wiki in this situation, it'd be a violation of WP:UGC and WP:OR. the wiki is almost entirely made by the fandub's original creator, thethirdgathers: the problem is it relies exclusively on his own word of mouth over anything secondary. i had to limit myself to as little information from primary sources as possible. jeremy winterson's blog was an exception here (since i can prove its validity and relevance), but the youtube video citations were kept to a single, short sentence. Kinnimeyu (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

@Mia yun Ruse: do you have any WP:RS citations for the edits you've made? otherwise i'll have to revert it entirely, i don't recall any of the added information being present in the sources i included. this raises some concerns with WP:V especially during an ongoing GAN. Kinnimeyu (talk) 23:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

hi @Kinnimeyu! most of the citations are from the primary source (external link). Happy that you reverted it for the sake of WP:V :)

I am not familiar with the exact Wikipedia understanding of correct sources (wikis are quite editable), but I feel it's quite relevant to cite the fandub creator's understanding of how the translation was applied (eg how Allah Gold was later Peaceful is Willing through re-transliteration). So I could re-cite that specifically, if you think? Mia ^{a data witch!  talk · contribs} 23:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

if you can find that information specifically on a reliable source, then sure. (but trust me, i tried everything, the citations marked "generally reliable" per cite unseen were the only ones i was able to find online.) the script just can't be used as a citation in this case given it's an external link/primary source. Kinnimeyu (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Hello, I am TheThirdGathers, the mentioned fandub creator. Though I can confirm that the information in the wiki is reliable, the difficulty is that there really are not sources to verify my claims. At the time it was made, I thought it funnier if people were confused into thinking that people who made the subs also made the dub, thinking this was a different vocal dialect but shared written language, much the way Cantonese and Mandarin share a written language. I had a whole interview planned where I, Jeremy who plays Ratio, and Ben who plays Speaker D, would claim we took a spring break trip to Shanghai and were hanging out in a square but were summoned over to spend the afternoon reading the lines for Backstroke, and getting paid $50 each. There was for real a series of interviews done in 2011 when the dub was complete, but the filmmaker never did anything with this. I've never met Gratefuldeadpool. I understand that there is no evidence of this, but I appreciate the effort to resurrect the wikipedia page. I am working on another authentic backstroked movie, Hally Porter, and others are working on the other Star War Gathers movies at the moment, so if anyone ever writes an article about those, perhaps proof can be obtained.

I will work toward filling out whatever can be verified- there are some things which are not certain would be notable, such as the Citikal reaction video- or are not verifiable, such as the use of early Kingsoft software as the translation tool.

Also while I'm not exactly sure how Allah Gold became The Peaceful Is Willing To, it appears to happen at the moment he becomes Reaching the West of Reaches (Darth Vader). He is then Reaching the West of Reaches to The West Emperor, and The Peaceful Is Willing To to the Hopeless Situation. Ratio Tile becomes The Willing To Compares.

Now I have no idea why his happens in the movie, but I like to think in the Backstroke lore that when he becomes the dark, he takes on a new idea as Gold is truly dead- as is Ratio. Ratio, having failed him, is cursed to take on the new identity The Willing to Compares, for the rest of his days. The Peaceful is Willing To, knowing that both he and Ratio are bound to a new identity (because this may just be how it is in the Hopeless Situation Encampment) mocks The Willing To Compares by still calling him "Ratio." TheThirdGathers (talk) 08:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Would it be possible to add the original dub channel, as a source?

This proves the dub originated at least as far back as November 10, 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHk37mgsA9M TheThirdGathers (talk) 09:10, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

@TheThirdGathers: i figured it was only a matter of time. thanks for reaching out, and welcome to wikipedia. let me give you a rundown; wikipedia has policies and guidelines in place for this sort of thing. click on the blue links to view them individually:

• wikipedia editors are required to use reliable secondary sources for coverage about a topic.
• in your situation, the fandom wiki is considered both user-generated content and a self-published source, and those should be avoided on the site.

(an exception to this rule is jeremy winterson's blog: sites labeled as reliable sources independently verify jeremy and his blog as what launched the bootleg, so it can be used for basic facts)

• the policy on primary sources extends to imdb cast lists, fandom wikis, etc. which falls under "user-generated content", so isn't acceptable for use.

(users who have attempted to add citations or sources based on these have had their edits reverted.)

• wikipedia does not allow original research. anything that isn't properly backed up by a source shouldn't be added.

i've taken care to use as much information from reliable sources as possible. previously, i had a commentary video on your newer channel cited as a primary source: i decided that it would be best to remove this. this was only used to verify the production date of the dub and its video count, but since those details aren't mentioned on any other source, i felt it would be inappropriate to cite.

this matters especially as i've nominated the article for good article status, and sources at that level have to be both reliable, and verifiable, across the board. gratefuldeadpool's upload is the only youtube video source currently used, and it's actually to your benefit: it's to credit you as the fandub's creator, because some websites misattribute gratefuldeadpool as the one who made it.

additionally, wikipedia's articles must meet a general notability guideline. i wouldn't personally suggest articles for any other project that haven't seen significant news coverage.

please note that i've pretty much exhausted my list of reliable sources on this article. though, if you decide to contribute edits (with the above policies and guidelines in mind), i suggest you disclose a conflict of interest with this article, which you can learn how to do here.

if you have any other questions, please let me know! Kinnimeyu (talk) 13:25, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, and I know you are on my/BOTW's side in this and your interest here is in having the article exist and not reduced to a small paragraph in Revenge of the Sith. Otherwise, you would not bother. You may be aware BOTW did have at least one robust dedicated page, at one time. It is therefore totally appropriate to revert that which does not comport to standards, and I thank you for doing so.

The only issue I'm tempted to press is original thethirdgathers dub youtube link above- it seems like there must be a way at some time of correcting the mis-attribution to Gratefuldeadpool (no fault of their own, who credited me the whole time) from Patrick Shanley and others who whatever reason didn't bother to make the distinction- while many did. Is the original YouTube channel proving the dub originates 6 years before the Gratefuldeadpool video this certainly not an original proper source, based on solving the question posed of the mystery behind the dub, posed in some of these articles? Or, does it stand vulnerable on its own island, to threaten "good article status" altogether? As an editor, I trust your judgement here.

Also, even if it's not submittable here, there is I believe a missing link between the 25 videos (I called them "scenes") I uploaded, and the Gratefuldeadpool video. Some people at originaltrilogy.com had made a DVD, which Gratefuldeadpool possibly uploaded, given some of the same timing issues in some of the scenes (I've always meant to fix- Speaker D's "Good" and Space General's "I should really feeds you all dog") are examples.

http--originaltrilogy.com-forum-topic.cfm-Backstroke-of-the-West-with-retail-DVD-quality-FINISHED-amp-FULLY-WORKING-DOWNLOAD-HERE-topic-4861-

That is also from like 2010, if it means anything. Again, probably no way to include it here, but it is part of the lore. TheThirdGathers (talk) 19:59, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Oh also, just in case it strengthens the hand re: Internet Culture but BOTW has been listed on Wikipedia under important Internet Phenomena for quite a time. (When? IDK)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_phenomena TheThirdGathers (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

unfortunately this leads to the same policy issue: whether or not self-published sources are usable in this context. myself and other editors came to the conclusion that it isn't. this matters especially because the context is from youtube videos years after the fact: and there's still a conflict of interest issue for pushing primary sources as the creator of something which is present on a wikipedia article.

it'd be a different story if there happened to be a 2017 reliable source interview where you or someone else said "this was produced between 2007 and 2010", but that additionally shouldn't incentivize you to now seek out an interview where you state all these relevant missing details. it's on us to include the most relevant info we can properly verify.

an article like Harmy's Despecialized Edition does employ sources like originaltrilogy.com, (very sparingly across the full text) though it became a good article in 2016, and policies/standards tend to change on-site over time. it's difficult to justify even minor additions for unverified production history when the bulk of the verifiable content is from journalists talking about the fandub itself. Kinnimeyu (talk) 20:32, 8 April 2026 (UTC)