Talk:BrahMos
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Supposed Ship Launch
I'm not suggesting that the BrahMos cannot be ship-launched, but I think the picture at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:INS_Rajput_firing_a_BrahMos_missile.jpg is blatantly photoshopped. There is a drop shadow behind the blast. Drop shadows don't usually happen IRL. Orokusaki (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
- Seems so. Here is the correct picture of a similar launch with shadow visible. http://www.brahmos.com/content%20image/sea-weapon-complex.jpg Enjoy Gainheight (talk) 01:46, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Untitled
This may not count as verifiable fact, but it's something of interest I was told by engineers at the Aero-India 2003 airshow, where there was a BrahMos exhibit: that the range of Brahmos has been officially limited at the interesting boundary of 290 km, because it allows Russian cooperation in the programme without being hindered by MTCR limitations.
The Russian Federation is party to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which aims at controlling the proliferation of nuclear capable ballistic missiles, including dual use missile technology. A nuclear capable ballistic missile was defined by the protocol as one capable of delivering at least 500 kg to '300' km; BrahMos' range is just below that, allowing the Russians to transfer technology without technically violating the treaty. BrahMos' stated warhead is also, of course, seemingly much lower than the lower limit prescribed by the MTCR, which might weaken the credibility of what this engineer told me; however, 290 is interestingly short of 300 km. It might suggest a missile design left open to future 'upgrades', both in range and, possibly, in warhead size. -- Rahul Nayar
- Globalsecurity.org thinks there's something to that story also; see the updated article for a reference. I wouldn't be surprised if they build a longer-range version in the future as well. --Robert Merkel 07:36, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Given the extremely short range of the BrahMos, should this even be classified as a cruise missile? A cruise missile, for me at least, is basically a flying plane bomb. One advantage of planes over standard missiles is their range. A plane that can only fly <300 km isn't much of a plane. In fact, the range of the BrahMos is basically within an order of magnitude of those of anti-ship and long-range air-to-air missiles. Compared to these weapons, the BrahMos is downright slow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.158.233 (talk) 00:43, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
ramjet
i noticed that there's no mention in the article of the fact that the missile employs a ramjet. considering that i linked to the article from the ramjet article, i think it should have at least some mention of ramjet propulsion used by the missile.--Alhutch 09:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Be bold and make the edit, then. --Robert Merkel 12:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Eliminated Features Section
It was taken verbatim from two of the listed sources Azureprophet 04:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
"capable of covering targets over a 360 degree horizon". What that supposed to mean? - --124.82.15.15 14:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- I believe that means that you can fire it one direction, and it can turn around right after launch and fly 290 km in the opposite direction. -NorsemanII 05:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- Means can be fired vertically and then the missile will tilt and fly towards the target. The warship need not have to turn towards the target to launch the missile. That's 360 degree coverage.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 15:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Someone is making heavily biased comments
I just removed some pro-Pakistani lines that are completely unrelated to the development of BrahMos. If you want to discuss what to add and what not, please write here instead of making stupid edits based on subjective POV's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.211.86 (talk) 17:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
High speed and damage
From the article: "The high speed of the BrahMos enables it to inflict more damage than slower cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk."
How is this conclusion reached? To my knowledge, this is not a kinetic energy weapon, but rather relies on high explosive payload to inflict damage. The Tomahawk missile used in the comparison carries a larger payload. --Clarkcol 18:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Since the Brahmos is basically an Anti-ship missile, at higher speeds, it will be able to penetrate the ship's hull more, and when it detonates, will cause much greater damage than a subsonic missile.
It relies on both KE & warhead to do the damage. Probably multiple subsonic missile hits are needed to create the damage of a single Mach 3 supersonic missile.--60.243.161.52 12:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- The Brahmos has a semi-armor piercing warhead. That means that it is designed to pierce through the hull and detonate, which would ensure total destruction. Also, in any AShM (as in many others), Kinetic Energy plays a big role in ensuring kills, especially since otherwise, it would take a lot of explosive to do the same damage. Without any KE, it would really amount to something like a HESH round (on Tanks), which would not really cause too much damage. Look at the Falklands war, where the Exocets did some considerable damage, but still failed to sink boats in many cases. But even what kinetic energy they had was devastating, especially with the HMS Sheffield.
- Doing a small calculation, the Exocet weighs 700 kg and flies at Mach 0.9. The Brahmos weighs 3000 kg and travels at mach 2.8. From KE = 1/2 * m * v^2. By that token, Brahmos has 4 * 3^2 = 36 times the Kinetic energy of the Exocet. Added to that is the larger warhead. Sniperz11 14:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Claiming that the BrahMos inflicts greater damage than a Tomahawk is... Amusing. Either remove that bit or change 'Tomahawk' to 'Harpoon' (In which case the claim would be correct).
Lets do the math:
KE(t) = 1440 kg / 2 x 245 m/s^2 = 43218000 Joules (Lets call it a round 43 megajoules).
KE(b) = 3000 kg / 2 x 645 m/s^2 = 624037500 Joules (Around 624 megajoules).
BrahMos' ahead. Alas, we're not yet done here.
Now for the explosive yield. I can't find the exact yield of RDX (Only the detonation velocity), but if the latter is anything to go by, it should be about 25% more powerful than TNT, which (The TNT) I'll use for now. Needless to say, the in-use explosive being more powerful than TNT would give the missile with the larger warhead a greater advantage.
CE(t) = 500 kg x 4186000 J/kg = 2093000000 J (About 2 gigajoules).
CE(b) = 300 kg x 4186000 J/kg = 1255800000 J (About 1.2 gigajoules).
Simple additions get us total yields for the
Tomahawk: ~ 2.1 GJ
BrahMos: ~ 1.8 GJ
Tomahawk's ahead.
Now, the point has been raised that the higher KE will help the BrahMos to penetrate a target. This is, of course, correct - Unfortunately, modern warships have... Not alot of armour. The only existing & in-service target you'd need this level of KE for would be a supercarrier (This said, there's alternative, less expensive ways to achive the same). But against any other target, the increased KE will have no significant effect, simply because penetration would occur at much lower velocities, too. And once penetration is achived, the bigger warhead wins.
What the BrahMos can do with its higher speed is putting pressure on a target - needing less than eight minutes to its target provides an advantage, albeit at the likely disadvantage of having the IR signature of a volcano.
In any case. Summary: The BrahMos does not inflict greater damage than the Tomahawk. In fact, the opposite is the case. However, its high speed should easily allow it to be more successful at penetrating the defensive perimeter of an opponent, simply by virtue of reducing their reaction time, as well as due to being harder to hit.
Oh, and the HMS Sheffield example provided above is, erm, incorrect - the Sheffield wasn't sunk by KE, it was sunk because the remaining fuel of the Exocet was ignited all at once - hence why the ship was suddenly on fire, as opposed to just having a big hole in it, which, while annoying, wouldn't sink it. This is, after all, why we're still putting warheads on our missiles, as opposed to using concrete-tipped ones. Aka Hoshi Rezo 08:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- I had a chance to speak to a BrahMos engineer about this very fact, about whether the KE helps at all. His point was simple... you need KE to penetrate the hull, which is quite a bit on well armored ships or carriers. Once it penetrates the hull, this ensures that the warhead explodes inside the ship, where the confined spaces will multiply the destructive effect of the warhead, and totally destroy the target. This same effect will not happen for the slower missiles, which will detonate on the hull. Even if it happens, it would be only for smaller boats, not the larger ones like the destroyers and Carriers that the Brahmos is designed to target. After all, you cant expect a single hit from a Harpoon or exocet to finish off a Nimitz, but a BrahMos can. T/@Sniperz11editssign 01:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Whether you had a chance to speak to a BrahMos engineer is beside the point. You're justifying your use of heresay and original research. The only information that is allowed in a Wiki article is published, peer-reviewed content. And with regards to this BrahMos engineer, given that shaped-charge warheads generate a metallic slug that, momentarily at least, can move at speeds of around Mach 50, even a slow missile can deliver a devastating punch to armor (Google for videos of shaped-charge warheads on missiles and torpedoes). The fact that the delivery platform is traveling at Mach 3 versus Mach 0.9 makes nary a difference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.158.233 (talk) 00:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Brahmos Land attack role
Can we use the same Anti-Ship missile for land targets? didn't they develop an LACM version which has probably different kind of terminal guidance? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.243.161.52 (talk • contribs) 12:19, Jun 27, 2007 (UTC).
- The only difference between the B-AShM and B-LACM versions is the seeker. The LACM has/will have a GPS seeker, while the AShM version has a radar seeker. Only difference between the two. They cant attack targets of the other type (At least at present), but can do pretty much everything else, including two missiles of different types being launched from the same launcher. T/@Sniperz11editssign 01:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Incorrect calculations
If it has 2 times the mass and 4 times the velocity of a tomahawk. It should have 32 times the KE and not 16 as the article states. --Weedrat 11:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
