Talk:Goy
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shiksa
The word "shiksa" directs to this page which is about the word "goy". There is no explanation about what a shiksa is. From what I've heard, it's an extremely offensive word used to describe a non-Jewish woman. 2600:1012:A023:5DF8:878A:65F9:932E:A036 (talk) 04:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
- If if enter the word "shiksa" in wikipedia's search bar it brings up the article on that topic. Atrapalhado (talk) 16:04, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Term or a slur?
Why is it that other "pejorative" words are classified a slur, but this remains a "term"? ~2025-33800-84 (talk) 13:58, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
- shhhh stop noticing! W3ryfrate (talk) 20:59, 9 December 2025 (UTC)
- Because if it said it was a slur that was sometimes pejorative it wouldn't make any sense. A slur is always, by definition, pejorative. Atrapalhado (talk) 00:41, 10 December 2025 (UTC)
- I would disagree with that, terms such as the n-word which are definitely slurs are also used non-pejoratively as terms by people. ~2025-39917-19 (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2025 (UTC)
- A better example would be the g word used to describe Roma people. Most folks aren't even aware that it's a slur. ~2026-30182-5 (talk) 20:28, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
- I would disagree with that, terms such as the n-word which are definitely slurs are also used non-pejoratively as terms by people. ~2025-39917-19 (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2025 (UTC)
- Because if it said it was a slur that was sometimes pejorative it wouldn't make any sense. A slur is always, by definition, pejorative. Atrapalhado (talk) 00:41, 10 December 2025 (UTC)
Primary Talmudic passages referencing gentiles (goyim)
The following passages are quoted directly from standard English translations of the Babylonian Talmud.
Modern classifications: • Discriminatory — unequal legal treatment based on group identity • Neutral — descriptive or technical usage without clear unequal treatment • Potentially discriminatory — differential treatment stated in legal debate context
| Tractate | Link | Exact translation snippet | Modern classification |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://lite.sefaria.org/book/talmud-bava-kamma/chapter/113b/ | "It is prohibited to rob a gentile, but it is permitted to retain his lost item, i.e., one is not required to return it to him." | Discriminatory — different property obligation based on group identity. |
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://lite.sefaria.org/book/talmud-bava-kamma/chapter/113b/ | "It is permitted to retain the lost item of a gentile… it is only to your brother that you return a lost item, but you do not return a lost item to a gentile." | Discriminatory. |
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://lite.sefaria.org/book/talmud-bava-kamma/chapter/113b/ | "Shmuel says that it is permitted to financially benefit from a business error of a gentile, i.e., it need not be returned." | Discriminatory. |
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://lite.sefaria.org/book/talmud-bava-kamma/chapter/113b/ | "In a case where there is a concern that retention of an article lost by a gentile will result in the desecration of God’s name, it is prohibited even to retain a gentile’s lost item." | Differential but mitigating — acknowledges reputational harm as a limit. |
| Sanhedrin 57a | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.57a?lang=bi&with=Translations | "If a gentile murders another gentile, or a gentile murders a Jew, he is liable. If a Jew murders a gentile, he is exempt." | Discriminatory — unequal criminal liability based on group identity. |
| Sanhedrin 57a | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.57a.16?lang=bi&with=Translations | "...a gentile murders another gentile, or a gentile murders a Jew, he is liable. If a Jew murders a gentile, he is exempt." | Discriminatory. |
| Bava Metzia 24a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.24a | "In a case when one found a lost item in a city where both Jews and gentiles reside..." | Neutral — descriptive legal scenario involving mixed population. |
| Bava Kamma 37b:12 | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.37b.12?lang=en | "With regard to an ox of a Jew that gored the ox of a gentile... exempt from liability." | Discriminatory (explicit unequal tort rule by group). |
| Bava Kamma 37b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.37b | "With regard to an ox of a Jew... gored the ox of a gentile... exempt from liability." | Discriminatory. |
| Bava Kamma 37b–38a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.37b-38a | "With regard to an ox of a Jew... gored the ox of a gentile... exempt from liability." | Discriminatory. |
| Bava Kamma 114a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.114a | "gentile courts as if it were the testimony of two witnesses?" | Discriminatory (differential evidentiary status by group). |
| Avodah Zarah 26a | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.26a?with=Mishnah+Avodah+Zarah | "a woman may not seclude herself with gentiles because they are suspected..." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (group-based suspicion / negative generalization). |
| Avodah Zarah 25a | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.25a | "a woman may not seclude herself with gentiles." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (categorical suspicion; implies danger/immorality). |
| Avodah Zarah 25b | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.25b | "Telling a gentile that one is traveling to a farther destination..." | Neutral (interaction/risk management; not inherently pejorative in tone). |
| Avodah Zarah 25b:6–11 | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.25b.6-26a.2 | "a woman may not seclude herself with a gentile..." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (negative generalization). |
| Avodah Zarah 25b:3 (context sheet quoting the daf) | https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/694522 | "a woman may not seclude herself with a gentile..." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (group-based suspicion). |
| Shabbat 31a:5 | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.31a.5?lang=en&with=Navigation | "The gentile said to himself: I will go and convert..." | Neutral (narrative; not pejorative). |
| Bava Metzia 72a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.72a | "the Jew can perform an act of acquisition on behalf of the gentile..." | Neutral (technical legal mechanics; not derogatory). |
| Bava Metzia 72a (with cross-links) | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.72a?with=Yoma | "If the gentile established it as a loan for him before he converted..." | Neutral (technical status timing; not derogatory). |
| Sanhedrin 59a | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.59a | "gentile who studies Torah robs the Jewish people of it." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (hostile moral framing of an out-group act). |
| Sanhedrin 59a:3 | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.59a.3?with=Introductions+to+the+Babylonian+Talmud | "gentile who studies Torah is like..." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (degrading comparison; requires full line if you want maximal precision). |
| Sanhedrin 59a:2 | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.59a.2?lang=en&with=all | "gentile who studies Torah..." | Racist/derogatory by modern definition (out-group exclusion framing; paste full sentence if desired). |
| Sanhedrin 59a:16 | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.59a.16?with=all | "There is nothing that is permitted to a Jew and forbidden to a gentile." | Neutral / anti-derogatory (explicitly rejects asymmetrical permission, in that statement). |
| Gittin 61a:5 | https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.61a.5?with=Mishneh+Torah%2C+Gifts+to+the+Poor | "poor of the gentiles together with the poor of the Jewish people" | Neutral / anti-derogatory (includes gentiles in charitable support). |
| Gittin 61a (sheet quoting the daf) | https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/453852 | "If an Israelite and a gentile stand before you to borrow... take precedence." | Discriminatory (explicit preference by group, even if framed as priority rules). |
| Yevamot 114a | https://www.sefaria.org/Yevamot.114a?with=Commentary+ConnectionsList | "gentile woman; and a child may suckle..." | Neutral (technical permissibility; not derogatory). |
| Bava Kamma 38a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.38a | "With regard to an ox of a Jew that gored the ox of a gentile, the owner ... is exempt from liability" | Discriminatory (explicit unequal tort liability by group). |
| Bava Kamma 38a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.38a | "whereas if a gentile's ox gores a Jew's ox, the owner is liable to pay the full cost" | Discriminatory (explicit unequal tort liability by group). |
| Eruvin 67b | https://www.sefaria.org/Eruvin.67b | "let them instruct a gentile to bring the warm water for him" | Discriminatory (legal rule structured around group difference); not necessarily derogatory. |
| Shabbat 121a:6 | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.121a.6 | "It is prohibited to derive benefit from an action performed by a gentile for a Jew on Shabbat." | Neutral-to-discriminatory (group-based legal distinction; not derogatory in tone). |
| Shabbat 122a:7 | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.122a.7 | "If a gentile collected grass on Shabbat for himself ... it is permitted for a Jew to benefit" | Neutral (technical Shabbat rule; not derogatory). |
| Shabbat 150a | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.150a | "telling a gentile to do something that is prohibited for a Jew on Shabbat violates a ..." | Neutral-to-discriminatory (technical rule; not derogatory). |
| Shabbat 151a:2 | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.151a.2 | "If a gentile brought flutes on Shabbat ... This is because ..." | Neutral (technical Shabbat rule; not derogatory). |
| Avodah Zarah 20a | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20a | "this issue of an undeserved gift to a gentile is itself a dispute between tanna'im." | Discriminatory (restriction framed by group status); not necessarily derogatory. |
| Avodah Zarah 64a | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.64a | "It is prohibited to give a gentile an unpaid gift" | Discriminatory (group-based restriction). |
| Bava Metzia 71a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.71a | "it is permitted to lend money to a gentile with interest." | Discriminatory (explicit rule by group). |
| Bava Metzia 71b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.71b | "the borrower presented the second Jew to the gentile and the gentile agreed ... it is permitted." | Neutral (technical workaround; not derogatory). |
| Bava Metzia 71a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.71a | "one of My people ... and a gentile both come to borrow money ... My people take precedence." | Discriminatory (explicit preference by group). |
| Gittin 47a | https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.47a?lang=en | "a Jew and a gentile who purchased a field in partnership" | Neutral (descriptive; not derogatory). |
| Gittin 61a:5 | https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.61a.5?with=Mishneh+Torah%2C+Gifts+to+the+Poor | "poor of the gentiles together with the poor of the Jewish people" | Neutral/anti-derogatory (explicitly includes gentiles in charity practice). |
| Avodah Zarah 64a (festival proximity framing) | https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Yoreh_De%27ah.148?with=Talmud | "On the three days before the festivals of gentiles the following actions are prohibited" | Discriminatory (group-based restriction; not necessarily derogatory). |
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.113b | "lost item, but you do not return a lost item to a gentile." | Discriminatory (unequal legal duty based on group); not necessarily “derogatory” in tone, but differential treatment. |
| Bava Kamma 113b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.113b?with=Introductions+to+the+Babylonian+Talmud | "allow him to leave the gentile's jurisdiction." | Neutral (jurisdictional descriptor). |
| Bava Kamma 113a:21–22 | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.113a.21-22?lang=en&with=Notes | "The mishna issues its ruling with regard to a gentile customs collector, whom one may deceive" | Discriminatory (permits deception toward a gentile, even if limited to “customs collector”). |
| Bava Kamma 113a:21 | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Kamma.113a.21 | "Rav Ashi said: The mishna issues its ruling with regard to a gentile customs collector, whom one may deceive" | Discriminatory. |
| Sanhedrin 57a | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.57a | "if a gentile murders another gentile, or a gentile murders a Jew, he is liable. If a Jew murders a gentile, he is exempt." | Discriminatory (explicit unequal homicide liability by group); also derogatory in modern moral sense (out-group life valued differently by law). |
| Sanhedrin 57a:14 (Hebrew “goy” present; translation snippet not fully surfaced here) | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.57a.14 | "גּוֹי בְּגוֹי וְגוֹי בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל אָסוּר, וְיִשְׂרָאֵל בְּגוֹי מוּתָּר." | Discriminatory (text states asymmetrical permissibility rules by group); translation should be inserted from a stable edition if required. |
| Avodah Zarah 62a | https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.62a | "MISHNA: In the case of a gentile who hires a Jewish laborer to work with wine used for an idolatrous libation with him, his wage is forbidden" | Discriminatory (group-based restriction; not necessarily derogatory). |
| Bava Metzia 71a | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.71a | "one should not lend money to a gentile with interest? The reason is that perhaps the Jew will learn from the gentile’s actions." | Racist/derogatory (negative generalization about “gentile” behavior as morally corrupting); also discriminatory (special restriction). |
| Bava Metzia 70b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.70b | "“Unto a gentile tashikh” ... it is permitted for a Jew to take interest from a gentile" | Discriminatory (explicit financial rule by group). |
| Bava Metzia 75b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.75b | "“You may lend to a gentile with interest, but to your brother you shall not lend with interest”" | Discriminatory (explicit group-based rule). |
| Bava Metzia 61b | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.61b | "one who attributes ownership of his money to a gentile and thereby lends it to a Jew with interest." | Neutral-to-discriminatory context (gentile used as a legal workaround category; not overtly derogatory in tone). |
| Mishnah Bava Metzia 5 | https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Bava_Metzia.5 | "with regard to a gentile ... [ger toshav] ... one may borrow money from him with interest and lend money to him with interest, since he is not a Jew." | Discriminatory (explicit legal distinctions by group status). |
| Bava Metzia 24a (mixed-population context) | https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.24a?lang=bi | "gentile guards or custodians are sitting." | Neutral (descriptive). |
| Shabbat 122a:5 | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.122a.5 | "If a gentile kindled a lamp on Shabbat for his own purposes, a Jew also uses its light; and if the gentile kindled it for a Jew, the Sages ..." | Neutral-to-discriminatory (legal distinction based on intent and actor; not derogatory). |
| Shabbat 122b | https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.122b | "A certain gentile came and kindled a lamp. Shmuel turned his face back away ..." | Neutral (narrative; no explicit negative generalization in snippet). |
| Gittin 45b | https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.45b?lang=en | "an incident involving a gentile in Tzaidan who would write Torah scrolls, and Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel permitted the Jews to purchase the Torah ..." | Neutral/positive (gentile portrayed as skilled scribe; permission granted). |
| Gittin 44a | https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.44a | "if the slave cannot be retrieved from a gentile, it should be permitted for him to take money in return." | Neutral (legal situation involving gentile ownership; not an insult). |
| Mishnah Pesachim 2:2 | https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Pesachim.2.2 | "It is permitted for a Jew to derive benefit from leavened bread of a gentile" | Neutral-to-discriminatory (group-defined rule; not derogatory in tone). |
| Pesachim 30b | https://www.sefaria.org/Pesachim.30b | "MISHNA: If a gentile lent money to a Jew, and the Jew gave him leavened bread as collateral until after ..." | Neutral (legal scenario). |
| Pesachim 29a | https://www.sefaria.org/Pesachim.29a | "one who eats leaven of a gentile over which Passover has elapsed" | Neutral (legal scenario). |
| Yevamot 17a | https://www.sefaria.org/Yevamot.17a | "Consequently, all children born to Jews from gentile women are not ..." | Discriminatory (status rules based on parentage/ethnic boundary); can be experienced as derogatory depending on full continuation. |
| Yevamot 47a | https://www.sefaria.org/Yevamot.47a | "gentile, but you are not deemed credible in order to render your children unfit." | Neutral (procedural credibility/legal status discussion). |
| Sanhedrin 57 (range page) | https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.57 | "If a gentile engages in intercourse with those Jews with whom relations are forbidden, he is judged according to the halakhot of the Jews." | Discriminatory (differential legal framework by group; not inherently derogatory in tone). |
"sometimes in a pejorative sense"
The word sometimes needs to be changed to often. The dictionary definition cited literally has the word often. The article doesn't match the citation. ~2026-44874-7 (talk) 13:15, 2 February 2026 (UTC)
- Three dictionaries are cited. One says 'often'. One says 'sometimes'. And one doesn't comment on its use as a pejorative. I think the current wording is fine. Atrapalhado (talk) 16:38, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
- you sound like someone who uses the term "goy" offensively ~2026-44874-7 (talk) 02:23, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
- why did you delete the Talmud references, labeling them as vandalism. I looked them up and the editor quoted properly? ~2026-85763-6 (talk) 05:47, 8 February 2026 (UTC)
- @~2026-85763-6 because that's not what talk pages are for Atrapalhado (talk) 08:36, 8 February 2026 (UTC)
- @Atrapalhado Just so you know, this page has been canvassed. – LuniZunie(talk) 16:15, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
- @~2026-85763-6 because that's not what talk pages are for Atrapalhado (talk) 08:36, 8 February 2026 (UTC)
I've known many Jews in my lifetime, and they have always maintained that Goy is a slur. Saying that is only "sometimes in a pejorative sense" in the current month and year seems like a coordinated effort to change the narrative in light of certain documents that recently came out. Namelesswalaby (talk) 18:55, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
- Slurs are by definition offensive; if a word is used to refer to a group of people, and that group of people are offended by being referred to by that word, then that word is a slur. saying otherwise, regardless of someone’s offensive, invalidates that party’s experience. ~2026-83179-0 (talk) 22:43, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
- which is why this article needs rewritten to more emphasis the use as a slur and take less emphasis on Jews crying over people knowing about the word ~2026-44874-7 (talk) 02:24, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
- Goy is not necessarily always a slur, so it should not be "often," just sometimes. Andre🚐 21:06, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
- (Personal attack removed) W3ryfrate (talk) 14:31, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
Talmud
why is there no section discussing the use of goy in the Talmud? ~2026-91721-1 (talk) 19:10, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
Incomprehensible explanations have been given to conceal this filth (GOYIM). It's a complete disgrace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2026-91841-1 (talk) 20:25, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2026
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The line in the first block of text
sometimes in a pejorative sense
Should be changed to
often in a pejorative sense
This more closely aligns with the cited sourced definition of the term. 2\3 sources say it is often used as a pejorative and thus the article should reflect that. ~2026-97172-7 (talk) 21:27, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before posting an edit request. Day Creature (talk) 23:38, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Talmud Interpretation
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The Talmud itsself directly defines the term "Goy/Goyim" as meaning "Sub-Human Cattle" when translated. Not "Nation" or the latter "Gentile" meaning Pagan/Heathen. But here are a few other statements made in direct reference to "Goy/Goyim" Baba Mezia 144b "Goys are not humans, they are beasts" Abodah Zarah 22a-22b "Goys prefer sex with cattle." Tospoth Jebamoth 84b "If you eat with a goy, its the same as eating with a dog." Soferim 15 "Even the best of goyim should be killed." There are many more, I could go on all day. I have absolutely no idea why its constantly being lied about, especially when it literally says in The Talmud to lie about what it means. And that its okay to lie to us about it. ~2026-10265-06 (talk) 21:02, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
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