Talk:Honour (feudal barony)

I suggest this article should be merged with the article English feudal barony as the two names refer to exactly the same thing. The standard work on the topic is Sanders, I.J. English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1327, Oxford, 1960, who refers to them as baronies not honours. The term honour appears in mediaeval documents, including Magna Carta, re "Honour of Wallingford", and in most ancient literature. "Feudal barony" is probably a clearer unambiguous name for modern readers, and clearly Sanders preferred it. I suggest therefore that the page Honour (feudal barony) be converted to a redirect to English feudal barony. Also, any "honour" listed in Honour (feudal barony) not sanctioned by Sanders or another credible source should probably be deleted or added to a section called "Other". Large manors are frequently called honours when they were not in fact held "per baroniam", thus are not feudal baronies.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:58, 17 September 2017 (UTC))

  Y Merge completed Klbrain (talk) 11:49, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Srnec I see you found another article to redirect to which is not specific to English honours. Unfortunately, this solution, which is probably better in the long run, means we'll need to review the "what connects here". The edit which triggered my initial concern was part of a fairly big series of edits which changing the wikilink for terms specifically about English feudal baronies, and these have a different article that they can sometimes better redirect to. I'll have a quick try myself, but if you have a chance could you also have a look?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 05:11, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but in any case it's a mess. We also have Honour (feudalism) and Honor (feudal barony), still redirecting to the English article. The term 'hono(u)r' may not be too often used in English when discussing continental Europe, but the Latin honores is and it is not a 'feudal' concept originally. Srnec (talk) 21:11, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

@Srnec: yes it is difficult now. The situation has changed and it looks different depending which direction you come from. Some of the links should indeed NOT go to the feudal barony article, but some SHOULD because they are discussing feudal baronies. Some of the text created in articles is also misleading about the connections and distinctions between the concepts.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 23:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Please see the new article Honour (England) and all the links now directed to it. Very many have been recently changed.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 23:32, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

I have rationalized the redirects for now. Generic titles point to honour (fief)—which means that many will need correcting if things stay as they are. I was unaware of the creation of Honour (England). As for the proposed merge, I will comment at that talk page. Srnec (talk) 02:12, 3 August 2025 (UTC)