Talk:Medri Bahri

@Leechjoel9 The Midri Bahri was without any doubt apart of the Ethiopian Empire. The Bahr Negash were governors appointed by the Emperors of Ethiopia. Both Richard Pankhurst and Taddesse Tamrat make this clear;

"The Christian kingdom at the time of Yikino-’Amlak’s accession in 1270 apparently extended to the region of Shlmazana and the Marab river, in the north; the Takaze river, southern Bagemdir, and the upper basins of the eastern tributaries of the Blue Nile, in the west; the edge of the plateau from northern Ethiopia down to the Shawan region,"

Midri Bahri, if it existed, was a vassal state or an autonomous province within the Ethiopian Empire. James Bruce never said that Midre Bahri was distinct from Abyssinia either, Bruce's statements were clearly taken out of context by Semere Haile, a pro EPLF author that heavily exaggerated the independence of Midre Bahr. Please read this;

Sherman opens by stating that the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries and later travellers such as James Bruce in the 18th century identified an area called Medri Bahri-equivalent to modern Eritrea as distinct from Ethiopia (p. 9). Indeed, the travellers did identify an area known as Medri Bahri, but it is, however, far from correct to argue that it was distinct from Ethiopia, In fact, all the travellers and several more, without any exception, stated that Medri Bahri was one of the provinces of Ethiopia. Sherman, instead of checking the sources, decided to rely on a political publication, even if he is uncomfortable with the Eritrean Fronts' characterization of their struggle as anti-colonial.

The only time the country of the Bahr Negash can be described as "independent" from the rest of Abyssinia is during the revolt of the Bahr Negash Yishaq, however, virtually all sources describe this to be a internal rebellion. محرر البوق (talk) 16:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

There are sources contradicts that it was completly under Ethiopian rule, "In 1770 a Scottish traveller James Bruce visited the kingdom who reported that at that time the Medri Bahri kingdom was a separate political entity from the Ethiopian Kingdom though the two were frequently in conflict. " ^[1] So it's best to describe that it at times was part of the Ethiopian empire. Altough the Adal Sultanate was located in what is today is Eritrea, Medri Bahri was not preceded by Adal Sultanate. The sultanate was one of many entities within the region at that time. Leechjoel9 (talk) 17:58, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 "thinkafrica.net" is obviously not a reliable source. There is universal consensus among scholarship sources that Medre Bahr was apart of the Ethiopian Empire. Another thing to mention is that James Bruce never said that the country of the Bahr Negash was separate political entity. He instead states that the entire region of Midr Bahre was apart of the province of Tigre (Tigray):

Abyssinia is divided into two provinces—Tigré, which extends from the Red Sea to the river Tacazzé; and Amhara, from that river westward to the Galla, [...] This division, however, has neither geographical nor historical precision, as there are in Tigré many little provinces that do not belong to it; and Amhara, which gives its name to the second, is but a very small part of it.

Also you added back alot of incorrect information, such as the kingdom lasting until 1879 (the title of the Bahr Negash disappeared during the Era of Princes) and that Medri Bahri existed since the fall of the Aksumite Empire, which also false and not supported by any sources so I'm reverting your edit until we reach consensus. محرر البوق (talk) 21:06, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

The sources is re-qoute. Several books and academic papers do qoute it.^[2][3],^[4]. Consensus have existed here before you startede adding content, hence why I reverted this to an state where this article had its original structure. The kingdom lasted indeed to 1878 ^[5], central parts of Eritrea (not coastal part of Eritrea), it existed alongside Ethiopian empire and the ottmans, before the entrance of the Italians. Even the source above mentions Medri Bahri in 1770 so its existed far longer than you are claiming, claiming otherwise is against WP:NPOV, the other sources on here also is evident of this, which you have tried to remove. Leechjoel9 (talk) 15:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

The history section includes incorrect infromation and irrelevant content which you added. The highlands did not suddenly became muslim and the converted again. You should present your point of view and reach consensus before making such changes. For instance the Adal Sultanate did not include central Eritrea. Leechjoel9 (talk) 15:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 Once again, James Bruce never said that Midre Bahr was distinct from the Ethiopian Empire, he said the exact opposite. I already showed you what he said so there should be no debate that by 1770 Medri Bahri was incorporated into the province of Tigre (Tigray). Secondly I'm confused, because that source you cited never said that the kingdom last until 1878 or 1770? It even calls the the Bahr Nagash a "governor", so how exactly does this prove your point here? The established fact is that the lands of the Bahr Negash was modern Eritrea

. I already gave you a number of high quality sources from Richard Pankhurst, Taddesse Tamrat and Harold G. Marcus that make this clear. Those sources you cited are not reliable; the first one is some journal from 1976, not even published or peer reviewed. The second one is a forks and mirrors source as it lists Wikipedia in the references and the last one is the source from Semre Haile, which I already discussed before, has quite a few political biases. So again, how this this prove your point here? Its a fringe theory by an Eritrean author trying to dismiss a mainstream view in the academic world which asserts the Bahr Negash was subordinate to the Emperor of Ethiopia. You can't come to conclusions based on whatever references you find on google books (you can literally find sources for anything nowadays), what should be discussed is whenever this is mainstream academic position or not and what actual reputable established scholars on this topic have to say.

In my opinion this article should be structured similarly, to something like Kings of the Han dynasty, we should make it clear that this polity was within the realm of Ethiopia for its entire existence (not a separate entity!) If you're still not convinced I suggest that we seek a third opinion. محرر البوق (talk) 00:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 Also, do you have any sources stating what polity existed prior to the Bahr Negash? The article never said that the inhabitants of the region were Muslims, only that Muslims were becoming more powerful and influential in this region, which is a fact. محرر البوق (talk) 00:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I wasn’t clearly states it was a separate kingdom 2A02:C7C:36FF:3600:4550:EFE1:F5BB:5170 (talk) 23:04, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

The Scottish traveler James Bruce reported in 1770 that Medri Bahri was a distinct political entity from Abyssinia, noting that the two territories were frequently in conflict. The Bahre-Nagassi (“Kings of the Sea”) alternately fought with or against the Abyssinians and the neighboring Muslim Adal Sultanate depending on the geopolitical circumstances. Medri Bahri was thus part of the Christian resistance against Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi of Adal’s forces, but later joined the Adalite states and the Ottoman Empire front against Abyssinia in 1572. The sixteenth century also marked the arrival of the Ottomans, who began making inroads in the Red Sea area.

https://stampaday.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/italian-colony-of-eritrea-158-1934/ Eritreannp (talk) 11:10, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Several Academic papers nad literature rejetcs your claims. Tigray was distinct from the area of Midri Bahri.

Literature-Book on the empiers of Ethiopia & Eritrea- Qoute: ″ Even in those distant times, however, it is clear that the land and people of highland Eritrea were distinct from people of Tigrayns of Ethiopia, even though they spoke the same language-just as the Austrians, Swiss Germans and the Germans of today are very different people (1998, Roy Pateman, P.33).”

• Literature-History of Portugise influnce during abyssynia. Historian Roy Pateman suggests that Biher-Tigrinya people of Medri-Bahri were “distinct” from people of Tigray-Qoute: ″ The men (of Medri-Bahri) wear different costumes; so also the women who are married or living with men. Here (Tigray), they wear wrapped round them dark coloured woolen stuffs, with large fringes of the same stuff, and they do not wear diadems on their heads like those of the Barnagasi (Midri-Bahri people)". -(1970, Francisco Alvarez, P. 91-2)″

Qoute 2:″ A Portuguese map of 1660 shows Medri Bahri as covering most of the three highland provinces of Eritrea and distinct from Ethiopia. (1998, Roy Pateman, p. 36)″

• Literature-History of Abyssinia by James Bruce. In 1770, the Scottish researcher James Bruce even gives the boundary of Tigray, which does not include the Biher-Tigrinya (Kebessa) people. According to Bruce, Tigray’s border with Medri Bahri (or BahrNegash) was indeed the Mereb river. Qoute:″ The greatest length of Tigre (Tigray) is two hundred miles, and the greatest breadth one hundred and twenty. It lies between the territory of the BaharNagash (which reaches to the river Mareb) on the east, and the river Tacazze on the west." (1860, James Bruce, p.83)″

• Literature- More on James Bruce in Abyssinia- James Bruce also reported Medri Bahri and Abyssinia were two “distinctly separate political entities who were constantly at war with each other. This shows us without a doubt that the Bhier-Tigrinya people of Medri-Bahri had a different political process from Tigray and Abyssinia all together. Qoute 2: In 1770 the Scottish traveler James Bruce also reported that Medri-Bahri and Abyssinia were two distinctly separate political entities constantly at war with each other." (1991, Okbazghi Yohannes, P. 31

• Literature- Book Abyssina by John Miles. In 1838, the traveler John R Miles describes the Mereb river as being the border between Tigray and the Kingdom of Medri-Bahri. Qoute: ″the Mareb, which forms the boundary between Tigre (sic, Tigray) and the Kingdom of Baharnagash.” (1846, John R. Miles, P. 131)″

.

• Literature-Another book of the history on Abyssinia. Ploweden, the 19th century contemporary British observer, also stated in the 1870s that Tigrayans did not regard the Tigrinya people as being the same as them.″ The people of Hamazain and Serowee, since the time of Ras Michael, though speaking the same language, are still scarcely (hardly) considered by the people of Teegray as a portion of that country whose governors, since that period, have made war on them….” (1868, Walter Chichele Plowden, P. 39)″

• Academic article - On Eritrea prior to the Italian Eritrea colony. According to professor Richard M. Trivelli, 'separate' ethnic identities were already there between the Biher-Tigrinya and Tigray people long before the Italians entered the region. Qoute:″ Separate regional identities began to emerge in the 18th century, a development accentuated by the establishment of colonial borders and the social and economic differentiation under Italian rule. Social differences between the populations of both areas were concurrent with the development of negative stereotypes about the respective other group. (1998, Richard M. Trivelli, p. 257-8)″Leechjoel9 (talk) 18:21, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 The lands of the Bahr Negash were within Tigray, George Wynn Brereton Huntingford identifies these primary sources as being mistaken. "Another very remarkable mistake found in the maps is that they change the names of the Kingdoms and place them a long way from where they really are, and what is worse, they make one Kingdom into many. For example, they a Kingdom they call Tigrai [...] another they call Barnagasso 14 degrees north of the line [...] Barnagasso or Bahar Nagaes means Governor of the Sea or of the coastal lands. He does not govern any Kingdom, but two small districts of which the capital is Debaroa and his authority does not extend anywhere else. These districts and lands of the Bahar Nagaes are apart of the Kingdom of Tigre."

But this is completely off topic now and has almost nothing to do with your edits on this article. The point is that the Bahr Nagash was the governor of the coastal provinces of the Ethiopian Empire, and this kingdom (if it even existed), was apart of the Ethiopian Empire. You have failed to refute this. However in the article itself you made the ridiculous claim that this kingdom was "at times considered a separate entity from the Ethiopian Empire" which is completely preposterous. Another claim you made was that the kingdom lasted until 1878, again unsourced, the truth is that this kingdom/province lost its autonomy after the rebellion of the Bahr Negash Yishaq. please provide sources for this before adding that into the article (an actual source made by a reputable scholar in this topic, not an obvious political publication like "The Long Struggle of Eritrea for Independence and Constructive Peace"). محرر البوق (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

The sources prior mine, and mine, clearly highlights that Medir Bahri for most parts was part of Ethiopian Empire, it's in the lead and in article. But clearly the peoples of Medr Bahri did not consider Ethiopian Empire (Tigrayans, which you highlight) and themseleves (Medir Barhi) as the same, shown by the wars waged beteween them, culturally difference and so on. The Medri bahri (autonomous rule of central highland of modern day Eritrea) existed until arrival of Itlains in 1890. This consenus existed prior to your views. Leechjoel9 (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any sources stating that the Midre Bahr existed till 1890? The article prior was unsourced or synthesis. That second sentence applies to various different regions of the Ethiopian Empire. I recommend that you read this (page 2-7), Kebessa was apart of Tigray even during the era of Bahr Negash and well into the 19th century. محرر البوق (talk) 20:39, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Medri Bahri was not part of Tigray, sources above shows that. Here are sources that confirms Medri Bahri existed untill the arrival of the Italians: ^[6] "Mohamed Kheir Omer, with some assistance from Baranbaras Kafel (of Medri Bahri), who was an enemy of Ras Alula..assisted Italians to gain control of many parts of the central plateau much more rapidly."

^[7] "In 1870, when Yohannes of Tigrai tried to invade and occupy the Medri Bahri, the people of Medri Bahri, under the leadership of Woldemichael, rose up in arms to crush the invading army of Yohannes"

^[8]"Moreover, it has been argued that the Egyptians began the unification of the Medri Barhi, a process completed by the Italians. For example in 1873, the Egyptans built stone road lining in Kassala, Keren and Massawa for the first time"

^[9]"Medri Bahri that, upon the arrival of the Italians, was reduced solely to the territory of Mareb Mellash"

^[10] "With the decline of the importance of the Midri Bahri in the 17th to 19th centuries, the province enjoyed a period of communal rule under councils of village elders, the so-called shimagile who enforced traditional laws which had prevailed uniquely in the region alongside feudal authority since ancient times."

You are trying to push your point of view which against WP:NPOV by not respecting the contributions and the consenus to this article in the past. Leechjoel9 (talk) 08:59, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 First of all your way of discussing is not appropriate in Wikipedia manners. There has never been any prior recent consensus for anything on this article. This is a prime example of WP:STONEWALLING, you have to actually have to provide a substantive reason to revert my edits. Also its pretty ironic that you keep accusing me of violating the WP:NPOV even though you keep citing political sources like In Defence of the Eritrean Revolution. My edits do not violate NPOV, I don't even think you know what that means. Instead of accusing your co-editors of POV pushing, try to help find a solution to improve the contents of this article.

The Kingdom of Medir Bahri (not the region which is what your sources are clearly referring to) did not exist during the 19th century. We know this because the post of the Bahr Negash (which ruled the kingdom) did not exist when the Italians and Egyptians arrived in the region. The Bahr Negash lost his autonomy after the campaigns of Sersa Dengil, and the post of the Bahr Negash was abolished during the reign of Mikael Sehul. (page 167-8 & 187-8). Infact one of the sources you cited on page 36 states that the post of the Bahr Nagesh was abolished in 1580. محرر البوق (talk) 20:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

I gave you several sources which sows that medr bahri existed in 18th century, If you claim otherwise you are not neutral. This article has indeed had consenus. It has had RFC in past and extensive discussion. The only user that has changed it recently is you. Therefore you have been asked to not change the structure or remove content based pushing "views", but you should provide sources and arguments. Leechjoel9 (talk) 16:01, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 I literally did provide you sources from Richard Pankhurst, Taddesse Tamrat, GWB Huntingford, etc. But you clearly do not seem to understand what WP:SCHOLARSHIP is. This article does did not have consensus but even if it did, consensus can change over time, I highly recommend that you read some of Wikipedia's rules and policies before making such claims again. The Bahr Negash did not exist in the 19th century, this is a fact, and the academic sources I've provided clearly attests to that. Not whatever crap you found on google books. محرر البوق (talk) 14:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I gave you many sources above. The contributions and long discussion by all users above have led to the current article and consensus. Many contributions which have been valuable which you single handedly rejected and deleted. You dont have consensus on your own, thats not how its formed. This article have been subjtected to socks with a similar behaviour to you, negcleting sources and pushing views. Leechjoel9 (talk) 16:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Once again, there is no consensus, its literally just you and me. I've already addressed your sources multiple times. The last 3 sources, are clearly referring to a region/province, not the kingdom which was ruled by the Bahr Negash. The first source, is titled In Defense of the Eritrean Revolution which is not a good source, more of a political publication then anything. You keep on ignoring what actual reputable academics have to say and then you accuse me of "neglecting sources and pushing views". This current revision of the article is a complete mess of synthesis and unsourced information, you've even messed up the headers. Nevertheless I've added a request for a third opinion and might open a RFC soon, and then consensus will be achieved. محرر البوق (talk) 17:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

No its not just you and me, if you read the RFC above and long discussion you will understand that past contributors have agreed to the content on the article, how the long the kingdom lasted has never ever been contested. All sources I provided is clearly showing it existed untill 18th century, this is well known fact and by refusing this basic fact your not neutral and pushing a false Ethiopian conquest of the area. This article is not about one ruler but Medri Bahri as a whole. The current version stands since its correct, it has sources which only you disagree with. Leechjoel9 (talk) 10:50, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Are we looking at the same talk page? That RFC didn't lead to any consensus, and that was opened 5 years ago. I'm getting signals that you don't really know what you're talking about. Please read WP:PRIOR. Your clearly trying to ignore the high quality references I've provided with fringe and questionable sources that you assembled on google books. This is not how WP:RSUW works, we actual have to analyze what reputable scholars and academic sources have to say. Medri Bahri is nothing more then a post contemporary name for a land ruled by a Bahr Nagash, Richard Pankurst and GWB Huntingford make this clear, you've even made the ridculous claim that this kingdom existed snice the fall of the Aksumite Empire, and that this kingdom lasted until its invasion by Yohannes IV (the sources cited say nothing about this) hence I'm reverting this revision until you cite sources that support this. محرر البوق (talk) 20:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

We are looking at the same page. This article have had several inputs by users that lead to the current article. Your pushing a view that got no support. 06:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC)06:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC)~~

That's not what consensus means. محرر البوق (talk) 15:13, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

@محرر البوق I agree with what you've done with this article, but the lede should discuss the discourse around Medri Bahri and state that the degree of its independence is disputed, the sources given here can't be completely disregarded. I don't think the current lead communicates the degree of autonomy well. Kowal2701 (talk) 16:12, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

You could mention for instance that it is important to Eritrean national identity Kowal2701 (talk) 16:16, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kowal2701@Socialwave597 you have changed this article to the point it no longer is an Eritrean article, you have deleted the following sources when you changed the structure of this article to read as an Ethiopian article while this article is about an Eritrean political entity called "Medri Bahri" pinging @Leechjoel9 to add perspective:

==References==

• Connel, Dan; Killion, Tom (2011). Historical Dictionary of Eritrea. ISBN 9780810875050.
• Pankhurst, Richard (1997). The Ethiopian Borderlands: Essays in Regional History from Ancient Times to the End of the 18th Century. ISBN 9780932415196.
• Tamrat, Tadesse (1972). Church and State in Ethiopia (1270–1527).
• Tronvoll, Kjetil (1998). Mai Weini, a Highland Village in Eritrea: A Study of the People. Red Sea Press. ISBN 9781569020593.
• Werner, Roland (2013). Das Christentum in Nubien. Geschichte und Gestalt einer afrikanischen Kirche.

==Further reading==

• d'Avray, Anthony (1996). Lords of the Red Sea. The History of a Red Sea Society from the Sixteenth to the Nineteenth Centuries. Harrassowitz.

Menhelicks (talk) 22:34, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

When the traveler from Jidda, by way of the Red Sea, arrives at the small island of Massowah, which is the key of Abyssinia, he enters a narrow channel, up which he sails to the port of Arteeko.

Here be first plants his foot on

the shores of Ethiopia.

The whole of this north-east coast,

which is called Barbarnagash,* and which is under the dominion of a chief of the same name, is divided into fifteen petty districts, each of which is governed by a pre-

• Literally, Coast King.

38

ABYSSINIA AND ITS INHABITANTE.

fect, or rather, a chief of brigands, who leads, in his own district, a life entirely independent of the Ras of Tigre. Eritreannp (talk) 11:33, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

What does Alemseged a Tigrayan man have to with an Eritrean Wikipedia page Eritreannp (talk) 11:05, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

The Scottish traveler James Bruce reported in 1770 that Medri Bahri was a distinct political entity from Abyssinia, noting that the two territories were frequently in conflict. https://stampaday.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/italian-colony-of-eritrea-158-1934/ Eritreannp (talk) 08:14, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

The whole of this north-east coast, which is called Barharnagash,* and which is under the dominion of a chief of the same name, is divided into fifteen petty districts, each of which is governed by a pre-

• Literally, Coast King.

4 38 ABYSSINIA AND ITS INHABITANTS. fect, or rather, a chief of brigands, who leads, in his own district, a life entirely independent of the Ras of Tigre.

Abessinia and its inhabitants, https://ia804507.us.archive.org/20/items/journalofthreeye00goba/journalofthreeye00goba.pdf Eritreannp (talk) 08:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

@Socialwave597 I was looking to write a section on Eritrean nationalist histories, but found sources which contradict that it was an Ethiopian province (or at least they don't use those words).

• Smidt 2012

  The second cradle of Eritrea ‐ and in public discourse also of a modern nationalist identity ‐ is the Christian kingdom of the Bahri Negash16. This region served as a bridge between Christian Ethiopia and the Muslim coast, which also contributed to its ambiguous character. It was in the anarchic period of the Zemene Mesafint in the 18th century that the old kingdom of the Bahri Negash, called Medri Bahri (in European sources also ʺBahraʺ17 or ʺBarnagassiaʺ18), was struggling for a new role in Ethiopian politics, periodically assuming a high degree of autonomy from the crown, while it remained a typical Christian Ethiopian kingdom.

• Rysek 2014

  In the Eritrean highlands, several autonomous units were established throughout the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Comprising the provinces of Akele Guzay, Serai and Hamasien, a joint kingdom was formed under Governor Bahri Negasi. A number of European travellers and a Portuguese map of 1660 described this kingdom, named Medri Bahri (Land of the Sea), as a political entity separate from Abyssinia. The Scottish traveller Bruce Scott described the distinctiveness of the two units in 1770 and has often been quoted by scholars in support of Eritrean independence; yet Scott also noted that the autonomous status of the Medri Bahri was fiercely contested by Abyssinia.4 As Reid has rightfully noted, the terms Abyssinia and Ethiopia have often been used ‘in their broadest, most generic sense, as mere geographical expression’, especially by European travellers, and cannot necessarily be understood as describing political territorial states.5 In fact, it was not until the end of the nineteenth century that Ethiopia could be described as a modern nation-state. Likewise the entity of Medri Bahri did not constitute a territorial state, yet existed as an entity separate from the territories south of the river Mareb. At the same time, it cannot be denied that the relations of Medri Bahri and Abyssinia were at least intertwined and, as Tesfagiorgis points out, the survival of the entity of Medri Bahri relied heavily on careful manoeuvres between Abyssinia in the south and the Ottomans who had extended their sovereignty to the Eritrean littoral in the late 1500s. Alliances with Abyssinia were sought specifically to guard against attempts at Muslim expansion into the territory of Medri Bahri.6

  (this source goes into more detail about Medri Bahri in Eritrean nationalist historiography)

Would it be better to replace semi-autonomous province of the Ethiopian Empire with semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire? A browse of Google Scholar sees lots of reliable sources calling it a kingdom. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

If we cant find a solution we need mediation from Wikipedia admins.

As other users already said, we eritreans want our Wikipedia pages protected from Ethiopian and pro Ethiopian editors censoring and undermining our history Eritreannp (talk) 05:57, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

@Kowal2701 @Socialwave597 No, I disagree with your conclusion which disagrees with the sources you have linked to the statement "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to", The most neutral statement that agrees with the sources you have provided is "autonomous kingdom neighboring the Ethiopian Empire"

Also, @Kowal2701, WP:ABF, you assumed bad faith of Eritrean editors, that is discrimination while you promote Ethiopian editors point of view. You and Socialwave have ruined this article by Ethiopianising(Abyssinising) it. Other Editors (Neither you or Socialwave) should edit this article. Right now you both are controlling this article and not allowing anyone else to edit. Menhelicks (talk) 21:14, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

As mentioned in the talk page of Eritrea. There have been recent changes to this article eliminating Eritrean history. [have been changed by one user erasing the period of Eritrea history of Medri Bahri as seen here . This should gain consensus here first before eliminating sources and the structure of the article. Leechjoel9 (talk) 20:23, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

WP:DRNC, everything in the article is sourced. Feel free to request a third opinion. @Kowal2701, please share your thoughts. Socialwave597 (talk) 00:03, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

You should go through WP:DRN. But Leechjoel9, the version you keep reverting to has worse sourcing, and Socialwave’s version is an improvement. But we should have an infobox, the status parameter can cover the contentious part. Can you please list some sources you want incorporated into the article? Socialwave597, I very much disagree with describing it as an autonomous province, sources I’ve seen don’t describe it as such, and instead call it a kingdom that had autonomy. Please look at how the General History of Africa writes about Medri Bahri and incorporate that into the article (I can do so later if you’re too busy, the GHoA is the foremost authority on African history from an African POV). But ultimately the nationalist POV should be in the article, we should just attribute it, saying something like Nationalist historians emphasise the Bahr Negus' autonomy and consider him to have ruled independently at times., or attributing to the individual historians. Kowal2701 (talk) 06:30, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

(Actually IIRC the GHoA doesn’t include anything on Medri Bahri or the Bahr Negus, worth double checking though) Kowal2701 (talk) 10:13, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Tried using a third opinion before but snice this is such a obscure topic we couldn't find anyone. But what historians emphasize his independence? I don't mind it being called a kingdom anymore, I'm willing to add that into the article. Socialwave597 (talk) 14:20, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Ryseck 2014 says of Eritrean nationalist historians

.In addition, the Medri A-Bahar were ‘quasi always effectively independent from the Ethiopian Empire, even if its recognized the high authority’.25 Ethiopian claims of the opposite were considered to be prompted by economic reasons, namely the need to get access to the sea through Eritrean ports. These allegations were directly answered by a representative of the Unionist Party. R. Tesfit asserted that the ethnic differences of the northern regions had been exaggerated in an attempt to use them as ‘historical proof’ in favour of the argument that Eritrea was never part of the Ethiopian Empire, and pointed to the lack of historical documents to support the claim.26 Similarly, he asserted there was no proof of how far the Semitic incursion actually went and which territories it included. In fact, his main argument appeared to be that no historical proof had been presented to affirm assumptions that Eritrea used to be a territorial entity autonomous from the Ethiopian Empire. Additionally, autonomy as described in recognition of the sovereignty of the Empire was to be considered as ‘relative autonomy and not complete independence [...] Historically for us, autonomy is a general phenomena [sic] for all of Ethiopia. Autonomous Eritrea existed only because these parameters existed amid other autonomous Ethiopian regions’.27 Therefore, the Bahri Negasi was not independent but rather had autonomous regional administration just as had existed elsewhere in Ethiopia.

We could add to the lead Eritrean nationalist historians emphasise Medri Bahri's autonomy and consider it to have been de-facto independent, however most scholars dispute this and consider it to have had the same level of autonomy as Ethiopia's other regions. Kowal2701 (talk) 14:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Alright I have zero issues with that, I do have a problem with adding the infobox, as the dates are rather divergent and the ones added before were original research. This map is also exceedingly incorrect, as it only occupied a small highland area from the Mereb to the port of Hirgigo, here's a more accurate map. Socialwave597 (talk) 17:02, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Think we can put date_start = 11th/15th century to summarise the body. That map looks good. See what Leechjoel thinks Kowal2701 (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

But this is difficult when Leechjoel won’t elaborate on what their issues with the current revision are Kowal2701 (talk) 15:28, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Also I think it’d be good if the history section had subsections to improve navigation and readability Kowal2701 (talk) 08:05, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

@Leechjoel9 I agree to restore this article to the previous state prior to @Kowal2701 and @Socialwave597 complete edits that turned this into an Ethiopian article. The article reads like many Ethiopian articles where it must be noted that the "territory" and "people" are always owned or controlled or somehow "Ethiopian". This article is essentially a Tigrayan Ethiopian article! Menhelicks (talk) 21:28, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

This article has been ruined by pro-ethiopian nationalist bias. Referring to Medri Bahri as a province or a "semi-autonomous" kingdom "subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire" is the most clear Ethiopian nationalist bias that this article has been subjected to.

The Article beginning statement should be read as:

"Medri Bahri (Tigrinya: ምድሪ ባሕሪ, English: Land of the Sea) or Mereb Melash (Tigrinya: መረብ ምላሽ, English: Beyond the Mereb), also known as Baharanegash, Ma'ikele Bahr or Bambolo Melash was a republic polity in Eritrea.

NOT:

Medri Bahri (Tigrinya: ምድሪ ባሕሪ, English: Land of the Sea) or Mereb Melash (Tigrinya: መረብ ምላሽ, English: Beyond the Mereb), also known as Baharanegash, Ma'ikele Bahr or Bambolo Melash was a semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire ruled by the Bahr Negash.

Ethiopian nationalist and pro-Ethiopia biased editors are tagging every Eritrea related article with "Ethiopia" ... Eritrean articles need to be protected from this concerted effort to Ethiopanise every Eritrean article.

If I don't receive any complaints, I plan on changing the lead to read as I noted. Menhelicks (talk) 05:19, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

First, undoing my own edits to discuss with Ethiopian nationalists and Pro-Ethiopia biased editors is silly WP:ABF. Second, that’s just your own original research, we only seek to aggregate and summarise reliable sources. From the sources I’ve seen, not a single one calls it a republic nor sovereign. But I can’t access the sources in the article, Socialwave597 may be able to provide quotes Kowal2701 (talk) 09:32, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

First off, you should appreciate, I deleted my changes to discuss rather than just edit and you would most likely revert without discussion. Nope nothing bad faith about pointing out that this article has been Ethiopia-washed to the point, it's no longer an Eritrean article. This article is listed as part of the contentious Horn of Africa articles. Also, you posted this:

"We could add to the lead Eritrean nationalist historians emphasise Medri Bahri's autonomy and consider it to have been de-facto independent, however most scholars dispute this and consider it to have had the same level of autonomy as Ethiopia's other regions. Kowal2701 (talk) 14:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)"

Apparently, you are practicing WP:ABF when it comes to "Eritrean nationalist" historians however you say nothing about "Ethiopian nationalist" historians, Pankhurst is an Pro-Ethiopian nationalist historian Richard Pankhurst (historian), there is nothing neutral about Pankhurst yet you and Pro-Ethiopian nationalist narrative editors utilise him to Ethiopianise/Ethiopian-wash Eritrean history and articles on Wikipedia. Menhelicks (talk) 10:58, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

ABF relates to interactions between editors, not when discussing sources. Nope nothing bad faith about pointing out that this article has been Ethiopia-washed to the point, it's no longer an Eritrean article, you called fellow editors biased and nationalists. Calling Pankhurst an Ethiopian nationalist is unserious. I didn't characterise sources as Eritrean nationalist, third-party sources did. You've also provided no sources so this all appears to be your personal opinion, which isn't relevant per WP:NOR. Kowal2701 (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

No actually you did state this: "Would it be better to replace "semi-autonomous province of the Ethiopian Empire" with "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire"? A browse of Google Scholar sees lots of reliable sources calling it a kingdom. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2025 (UTC)" in the Talkpage topic "Eritrean nationalism" which you started. Everyone has a bias, you apparently, wanted to change "semi-autonomous province" to "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire". This is your change and your edit adds to the Pro-Ethiopian nationalist bias even significantly. You assumed bad faith on me calling out your bias when you added this Pro-Ethiopian nationalist biased edit. My change makes the lead statement neutral, calling Medri Bahri a subordinate is Highly Contentious.As for Richard Pankhurst, from his own article, the "historian" was clearly a Pro-Ethiopian nationalist biased individual for Ethiopia, "His mother, Sylvia Pankhurst, had been an active supporter of Ethiopian culture and independence since the Italian invasion in 1935, and Richard grew up knowing many Ethiopian refugees.[9] Sylvia was a friend of Haile Selassie and published Ethiopia, a Cultural History in 1955. In 1956, she and Richard moved to Ethiopia.[7] He began working at the University College of Addis Ababa, and in 1962 was the founding director of the Institute of Ethiopian Studies.[8] He also edited the Journal of Ethiopian Studies and the Ethiopia Observer.[7]"Menhelicks (talk) 11:41, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

How does changing it from a "province" of the Ethiopian Empire to a "subordinate kingdom" increase Ethiopian nationalist bias, I actually made that change to emphasise its autonomy, would you prefer we changed it back to Ethiopian province as it says in the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica pg 773? Look, I'm going to be frank, if you continue to use article talk pages for your personal rants and lob accusations at people, you'd be walking into a TBAN. Wikipedia has a steep learning curve, but if you don't take the time to learn how it works (WP:PAGS) patience runs out, and you've already been the subject of one ANI report. Focus on content (not editors) and only discuss sources. I'll change "subordinate to" to "subject to". Kowal2701 (talk) 11:50, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

The term "province" = "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire" is equally Pro-Ethiopian nationalist biased charged terminology.

Simply titling the lead as "kingdom or republic polity in Eritrea" is the most neutral statement. As for republic, I've read sources that referred to it as such, I am trying to find them.

Either way, "province" or "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire" are both highly contentious terms in my opinion. Also, I would like to add, presenting an entity like Medri Bahri that existed from 1137 until 1890 as a subject to or subordinate to, will skew the history to present it as one way, when the concept of the "Ethiopian empire" had shifted in that length of time. Think logically, how can an entity be subject to a fluctuating entity like the Abyssinia/Ethiopian empire. Ethiopian empire was not a stable entity in the past, and neither is the current Ethiopia (Read the News, I highly suggest it) Menhelicks (talk) 11:58, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

@Kowal2701 Here is a quote by the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica article (only the header not the full excerpt which is much longer)

Märäb Méllaš

The M.M. (‘[Province] beyond the Märäb’, also Märäb Mällaš, Märäb Méllasi) was the name of a province north of the Märäb river, i.e. today’s Eritrean highlands (÷Käbäsa) with their dependencies. The M.M. largely corresponded to the territory governed by the bahér nägaš (bahri nägaíi), the Médri Bahri (‘Land of the Sea’, i.e. the coast). In the formal sense the M.M. comprised the historical provinces of Hamasen and Säraye, both unified under the petty dynasty of the Ad Däggiyat of SéŸazzäga in Hamasen. The province of Akkälä Guzay (not lying beyond the Märäb) was originally not included.

Socialwave597 (talk) 14:24, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

@Kowal2701 What is the purpose of adding the "subject to or subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire" needed in an article about a "kingdom", "polity" in Eritrea? Lets use the logic of "subject to" or "subordinate to" as meaning a country that has to pay tribute or tax to a foreign entity, does that need to be in the lead that describes that country? If that is the case, that should be added to every kingdom and country on Wikipedia? Right? And if the subject to and subordinate to is temporary lets say 5 years or 10 years, should the Ethiopian Empire article in the lead read as "subject to or subordinate to the Italian Kingdom"? Lets use the same reasoning here for Ethiopian articles as well. If not, then this addition of Subject to or subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire is a Pro-Ethiopian nationalist bias. Menhelicks (talk) 12:26, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

1137 is not found in any sources, only websites that mirror Wikipedia, it's from an old version of this article. Articles like Gajaaga and Diarra discuss periods of subjugation in their leads, the difference is that Medri Bahri was a province/vassal for its whole existence (bar I guess the 16th c. revolt). We can't change content without using sources. I'm gonna wait for Socialwave597, I normally try to avoid Horn articles. Kowal2701 (talk) 13:36, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

The sources say "autonoumous", "distinct", "separate" from the Abyssinia (Ethiopian Empire)...the added "semi-autonomous" and "subordinate" is a fabrication by the Pro-Ethiopian Nationalist editors. I removed the "semi-autonomous" and "subordinate" and replaced with "neighboring". Kowal attacked editors as "Eritrean nationalism" for simply noting this distinction. Menhelicks (talk) 08:00, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

The linked Reference does NOT call "Medri Bahri" as "semi-autonomous" while the Reference says "Autonomous" and "distinct from Abyssinia".

"In the Eritrean highlands, several autonomous units were established throughout

the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Comprising the provinces of Akele Guzay, Serai

and Hamasien, a joint kingdom was formed under Governor Bahri Negasi. A number of

European travellers and a Portuguese map of 1660 described this kingdom,named Medri Bahri (Land of the Sea), as a political entity separate from Abyssinia.

https://etheses.lse.ac.uk/1046/1/RyseckL_Ryseck_The_search_for_national_identity_in_post-colonial_multi-communal.pdf

Menhelicks (talk) 04:56, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

So we should remove "semi-autonomous" and replace it with autonomous? Will that alleviate your concerns? The source cited calls it a province of Ethiopia. Socialwave597 (talk) 16:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

The sources all refer to it as an autonomous kingdom and not a "semi-autnomous" kingdom..and the use of the word "province" is an Ethiopian expansionist term. I assume in good faith that you did read this portion of the source going beyond just "James Bruce" but also Portoguese maps, as well as the historical fact that the Bahr Negash Isaak saved Abyssinia by letting the Portoguese through Medri Bahri to Abyssinia.

Again, "A number of European travellers and a Portuguese map of 1660 described this kingdom,named Medri Bahri (Land of the Sea), as a political entity separate from Abyssinia."

b) The highlands (the kingdom of the Bahri Negash)

The second cradle of Eritrea ‐ and in public discourse also of a modern

nationalist identity ‐ is the Christian kingdom of the Bahri Negash16 . This

region served as a bridge between Christian Ethiopia and the Muslim coast,

which also contributed to its ambiguous character. It was in the anarchic

period of the Zemene Mesafint in the 18th century that the old kingdom of

the Bahri Negash, called Medri Bahri (in European sources also ʺBahraʺ17 or

ʺBarnagassiaʺ18 )

None of the sources refer to Medri Bahri as a "semi-autonomous kingdom" subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire, this is a complete Original Research. If the argument is it was occupied by Ras Alula, and Sihul at certain points, it doesn't change its general autonomous distinction of which notable European Travellers and Historians have noted. I plan on changing it to "autonomous kingdom" neighboring the Ethiopian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, as the Ottoman Empire was on its border as well.Menhelicks (talk) 18:17, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

The claim that Medre Bahr was distinct from the rest of the Ethiopian Empire is a fringe theory and the claims your source are making have been factchecked multiple times.

Sherman opens by stating that the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries and later travellers such as James Bruce in the 18th century identified an area called Medri Bahri-equivalent to modern Eritrea as distinct from Ethiopia (p. 9). Indeed, the travellers did identify an area known as Medri Bahri, but it is, however, far from correct to argue that it was distinct from Ethiopia, In fact, all the travellers and several more, without any exception, stated that Medri Bahri was one of the provinces of Ethiopia. Sherman, instead of checking the sources, decided to rely on a political publication, even if he is uncomfortable with the Eritrean Fronts' characterization of their struggle as anti-colonial.

Bahta Hagos was a anti-colonial rebel in Akele Guzai, which was below the Mereb and not considered a part of medieval Medri Bahri so I do not see any reason why he should be included. But the overwhelming academic consensus states that MB was a province of Ethiopia. Hence, I strongly object to the term that it was "neighboring the Ethiopian Empire". Do not make these changes without consensus, courtesy ping to @Kowal2701. Socialwave597 (talk) 20:06, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

All the three sources used to state "semi-autonomous" do not state "semi-autonomous". You are not arguing in good faith and just trying to push the Ethiopian nationalist agenda. And what part of Akele Guzay do you not understand means that Akele Guzay was part of Medri Bahri especially at the time of Bahta Hagos.

"Comprising the provinces of Akele Guzay, Serai, and Hamasien, a joint kingdom was formed under Governor Bahri Negasi. A number of European travellers and a Portuguese map of 1660 described this kingdom,named Medri Bahri (Land of the Sea), as a political entity separate from Abyssinia."

You are willfully Ethiopianising (Abyssinising) this article about Eritrea and Medri Bahri. The Treaty of Wuchale literally stated that Medri Bahri (Akele Guzay, Hamasien, Seraye) =Eritrea are not part of Ethiopia (Abyssinia). You clearly are proving your Ethiopian-bias, when you are rejecting what the three sources are saying. Either way, Medri Bahri is a part of Eritrean History, no amount of mental gymnastics you perform here will change that! Wikipedia can continue to promote this fiction, but the facts are True in Reality! Medri Bahri was an Autonomous Kingdom in the Horn of Africa.Menhelicks (talk) 20:34, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Ok, is that your main problem with the article? That is says "semi autonomous"? I am not responding to the rest of your argument because that has already been addressed. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

That is not my only issue and many have raised issues with this article since it has been changed from an Eritrean article to an Ethiopian article. I've already stated what is the most neutral start to this article which is "autonomous kingdom neighboring Ethiopia", also, add Bahta Hagos because by the years of 1880-1890, he was a Medri Bahri Resistance fighter. The sources refer to Medri Bahri.

Ignoring all the issues with this article to maintain it as a Ethiopian-POV article will just bring more issues. Consider what @Leechjoel9 and others have noted in previous Topics. Menhelicks (talk) 22:25, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

SocialWave, you also deleted the Picture of Bahta Hagos who is clearly a Notable Person of Medri Bahri. You kept the Ras Alula picture. You are showing Pro-Ethiopian nationalist bias as well as Anti-Eritrean Bias. This article is part of the Eritrea WikiProject. If you delete the Bahta Hagos picture again, then you are simply pushing a Ethiopian nationalist agenda. Menhelicks (talk) 18:29, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Alright let's do a review of sources, ignoring the countless aspersions and personal attacks for now. Menhelicks, article talk pages are for focussing on content (click on that link), if you have concerns with someone's conduct you can either raise it with them at their user talk page or at a conduct noticeboard like WP:ANI or WP:AE. Last warning

Of those cited in that note (none of them brilliant sources):

• Smidt 2012 says it was a Christian kingdom, struggling for a new role in Ethiopian politics, periodically assuming a high degree of autonomy from the crown
• Ryseck 2014 effectively says it was unclear, says Abyssinia/Ethiopia were geographical terms rather than political ones, and says it cannot be denied that the relations of Medri Bahri and Abyssinia were at least intertwined, and that they were allied in the 16th c.
• Erlich 2024 says it was mostly autonomous
• Idris 2017 I can't access

Of others cited in the article:

• Encyclopaedia Aethiopica says Ethiopian province
• A history of Ethiopia (Marcus 1994) says the Bahr Negash was the Ethiopian governor who ruled the Red Sea coast
• Historical dictionary of Eritrea (2011) says the region between the MAREB River and the Red Sea ruled by a Christian governor owing allegiance to Ethiopian authorities
• Derat 2020, I can't access because the Wikipedia Library is broken
• The Ethiopian Borderlands: Essays in Regional History from Ancient Times to the End of the 18th Century (Pankhurst 1997) says the Bahr Negash was an Ethiopian functionary/official
• Mai Weini, a Highland Village in Eritrea: A Study of the People (1988) says James Bruce... identified the area approximating present-day Eritrea as a separate political entity called Medri Bahri - The Land by the Sea; if only as an integrated part of the Abysinnian Empire.
• Werner 2013 is in German, Erlikh 1996 and Caulk 2002 are just on the late-19th century

Others I can find and access:

• The Long Struggle of Eritrea for Independence and Constructive Peace (1988) says it was a vassal state
• Eritrea (2010) says autonomous kingdom

I can't look at any more because TWL isn't working, but from those, all but one says it was subject to Ethiopia (and that one is a thesis, which WP:THESIS cautions about). We can split hairs on the exact wording, but I don't think there's any support from the sources for a substantial change. Re wording, I don't think we can say "autonomous kingdom" and not say what it was autonomous from, so I'd lean towards ... a kingdom autonomous from the Ethiopian Empire and remove the note. Courtesy ping to Socialwave597 for their thoughts (Menhelicks already pinged) Kowal2701 (talk) 22:40, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

The note should be kept, don't see any reason to remove it. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:42, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Do we have a source roughly supporting All of Ethiopia's provinces were semi-autonomous in the same way in the context of Medri Bahri? Kowal2701 (talk) 22:46, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Well they were "kingdoms", per say (e.g. Kingdom of Tigray, Kingdom of Shewa). I am a bit busy now but within the next couple of days I'll see if I can find a source, or consult the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:50, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

What is the "Kingdom of Tigray" article on Wikipedia? Menhelicks (talk) 22:54, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

I think you are the one who added those sources which clearly don't say "semi-autonomous kingdom subordinate to the Ethiopian Empire", do you agree none of those sources make that claim? This article will need major cleanup because your previous edits as well as @Socialwave597 have presented an Ethiopian-POV while this article is about Eritrea. Additionally, I will keep repeating that the sources note Bahta Hagos has a Notable Resistance fighter against Italian Colonisation as well as Tigrayan Ethiopian (Abyssinian) invasions against his territories within Medri Bahri (Eritrea). This article will be a focus for many editors as you and Socialwave continue to resist any difference of opinion with properly sourced references. I made no insults, I simply called out this clear Ethiopian-Biased POV as have others on this Talkpage, please refer to the previous Topics which I am responding to as well and pinging any previous editors whom noted these issues with the articles that you and Social wave have editted. I am assuming good faith, however, I will point out a POV similar to how you made about an Eritrean nationalist POV however you seem to ignore the Ethiopian POV and accept it as if it is a basic fact!. Ethiopian nationalism needs to be pointed out as well, if you disagree with this, then this article will remain NOT WP: Neutrality and as written currently is an Ethiopian-Biased POV article.Menhelicks (talk) 22:51, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

What is Ethiopian biased about this article? You claim that this article needs to a "major cleanup", but you only talk about whenever it is semi-autonomous or autonomous and the picture of Bahta Hagos, both of which can be easily fixed. Can you please be more specific about what your problems are in this article? Socialwave597 (talk) 04:42, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

You tell me, this is the article that you @Socialwave597 and @Kowal2701 Changed into this Ethiopian/Abyssinian/Tigrayan Biased article...point to me in this version of your Article (since you own this article) which other editors including @Leechjoel9 etc have posted in the talkpage. This article completely reads as a Ethiopian/Abyssinian history article, the previous article had Notable ethnic Medri Bahri leaders, had the Eritrean perspective, this article is literally a Ethiopian-biased Article. You can continue to refuse to note this, but you and Kowal did change this article to this Ethiopian-Biased POV article. This article needs other editors besides you @Socialwave597 and @Kowal2701 whom have stated your own Ethiopian nationalist bias.

:::Simple question, show us where this article is even about Medri Bahri (Eritrea), its everything about Abyssinian emperors, Tigrayan Ras Alula, Tigrayan leaders, and "subordination" etc...This article will be continued to be a Ethiopian-biased article until the Eritrean perspective is in this...otherwise, I will create another Article that is Eritrean perspective. This article doesn't belong in the Eritrea WikiProject. No point in edit warring which you clearly are willing to revert any change that brings the Eritrean perspective on so-called Eritrea article. '

====Ethiopian-Biased Article ( as authored by you (Socialwave) and Kowal)===

"According to historian Richard Pankhurst it was during the reign of Emperor Zara Yaqob (r. 1433–1468) when the title Bahr Negash ("Ruler of the sea") appeared for the first time. However, it also appears in an obscure land grant of the Zagwe King Tatadim, who ruled during the 11th century. He considered the unnamed Bahr Negash as one of his seyyuman or "appointed ones". Zara Yaqob's chronicle explains how he, after arriving to the region, put much effort into increasing the power of Bahr Negash, placing him above other local chiefs and eventually making him the sovereign of a territory covering the highlands of Hamasien and Seraye. To strengthen the imperial presence in the area, Zara Yaqob also established a military colony consisting of Maya warriors from the south of his realm. These settlers were believed to have terrified the local population and it was said that the "earth trembled at their arrival" and the inhabitants "fled the country in fear".

In the 1520s, Eritrea was visited by the Portuguese traveller and priest Francisco Alvares. The current Bahr Negash bore the name Dori and resided in Debarwa, a town on the very northern edge of the highlands. Dori was an uncle of Emperor Lebna Dengel, to whom he paid tribute. These tributes were traditionally paid with horses and imported cloth and carpets. Dori was said to wield considerable power, with his authority extending from the Hamasien highlands to the port of Hirgigo. He was also a promoter of Christianity, generously gifting the churches and monasteries everything they needed. By the time of Alvares' visit, Dori was engaged in warfare against some Nubians after the latter had killed his son. The Nubians were known as robbers and generally had a rather bad reputation. They originated somewhere five to six days away from Debarwa, possibly Taka (a historical province named after Jebel Taka near modern Kassala).

During the Ethiopian-Adal War, the region was one of the last parts of the empire to be confronted by Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi due to its location in the far north. The Bahr Negash Za-Wangel was killed fighting the Adalites in the Battle of Shimbra Kure in 1529. However it wasn’t until 1535 the forces of Imam Ahmad crossed the Mareb river into the region. The Adalite occupation was resisted bitterly by the local population, who killed the Adalite governor Vizer Addole and sent his head to the Emperor. The Emperor upon receiving it had drums beaten and flutes played, optimistically declaring that the fortunates of the war were soon turning. In response, an army led by Wazir Abbas and Abu Bakr Qatin marched into Seraye where they massacred the locals and pacified the region. The Imam's occupation of the coastal highlands resulted in considerable destruction and violence. In 1541 the Portuguese warrior Miguel de Castanhoso arrived in the region, he noted that the lands of the Bahr Negus was "depopulated through fears of the Moors", for "the inhabitants had taken refuge with their herds on a mountain." Many Christians upon seeing the Portuguese came out of their hiding with "crosses in their hands, in solemn procession, praying God for pity." The local monks informed the commander, Cristóvão da Gama, that their enemies had destroyed all their monasteries and churches. They called on da Gama to seek vengeance and many locals joined the Portuguese in their struggles against the Imam, most notably the Bahr Negash Yeshaq.

After the death of Imam Ahmad in 1543, Emperor Gelawdewos immediately reestablished imperial suzerainty over the Eritrean highlands. In 1557 the Ottoman Turks conquered the port of Massawa and under Ozdemir Pasha led an expeditionary force inland where they occupied the town of Debarwa. The Turkish troops then built a large fort, but due to the local population's access to firearms, they were forced to retreat back to the coast. Around this time the Bahr Negash Yeshaq, a supporter of Gelawdewos, became very powerful due to the import of firearms through the coast. Although a ruler of a vassal state, Yeshaq would heavily involve himself in internal Ethiopian affairs. After the death of Gelawdewos he revolted and attempted to place one of his nephews on the throne, but was defeated by Emperor Menas. According to James Bruce, upon being defeated, the Bahr Negash "threw himself at the mercy of the Turks" and ceded Debarwa in exchange for their help.

Yeshaq and his Turkish allies marched into Tembien to face the army of Emperor Sarsa Dengel, however this battle ended in disaster as the Bahr Negus was captured and then executed. Sarsa Dengel then proceeded to march into Debarwa where he captured large quantities of firearms and ordered the destruction of the Turkish fort. This victory was of major importance as put an end to the hopes of the provincial nobility to achieve independence or autonomy from the Ethiopian Empire. Sarsa Dengel, who was greatly angered by Yeshaq's treachery and arrogance, significantly reduced the Bahr Negash's status and the office was temporarily merged with that of the governor of Tigray. However, according to the chronicles of Emperor Susenyos I, during his reign he would revive the old tradition of appointing provincial rulers with the title of the Bahr Negash, appointing one by name of Amda Mikael to rule at least six localities north of the Mareb; Hamasien, Seraye, Akele Guzai, the Debarwa district, the Buri Peninsula, and the "country of the Sahos".

Emperor Fasilides appointed his son-in-law, Hab Sellus of Hamasien, as the governor of a province known as Bambolo-Mellash, which included Mereb Melash and much of Tigray. However, he abused his wife so violently that she died, after which he would make his way to the Emperor's palace in Gondar to seek forgiveness. Upon arriving in the palace he addressed the Emperor, saying "Your Majesty, in your great magnanimity, gave me your daughter and appointed me; but when I wished to approach my wife in accordance with nature and the law she rejected my approach; whereupon I, incited by Satan, raised my hand and struck her; and she died as a result of my blow. Because of this misfortunate I stand before Your Majesty." Fasilides, fearing to alienate the people of Hamasien, decided to forgive his son-in-law, declaring that "You did to her what she deserved". But he significantly reduced his fiefdom to just Mereb Melash. Hab Sellus subsequently returned to Hamasien, and brought the entire region of Mereb Melash under his authority. He would later rule the province for the next 40 years.

In November of 1769, the Scottish traveller James Bruce became acquainted with the Bahr Negash while staying in the village of Hadawi (near Segeneiti). He described the unnamed ruler as a "brave, but simple man" and a deputy of Ras Mikael Sehul, but he also considered the land to be a "barbarous and unhappy country." Bruce later revealed that the influence of the Bahr Negash had significantly declined due to the loss of Massawa and Hirgigo to the Turks, stating that it was formerly of great importance; "Before the Abyssinians lost the maritime district of Arkeeko, and the port of Masuah, the office of Baharnagash was one of the most important in the kingdom. It is now nearly a nominal one, under the governor of Tigre." He also reports that the district had only been recently incorporated into the province of Tigray by Ras Mikael Sehul with the use of "violence and oppression."

Despite nominally being under the rule of various warlords, such as Wolde Selassie, Sabagadis Woldu and Wube Haile Maryam, the territories north of the Merab became more independent during the Zemene Mesafint and largely consisted of various local communities ruled by a council of village elders. According to the early 19th century missionary Samuel Gobat, the region was divided into fifteen petty districts all of whom were "entirely independent of the Ras of Tigre". Gobat noted the inhabitants were primarily Muslims and Christians, the Muslims he described as being a "mischievous race of men, who are exceedingly troublesome to travelers". From the late 18th to mid 19th centuries, there was a long-standing rivalry between the rival Hazega and Tsazega villages. Ato Tewoldemedhin of Tsazega constantly fought to reduce his rivals to obedience; his son, Hailu was eventually forced to flee to Gondar to seek the support of Tewodros II. In 1860 he was reinstated as ruler of Hamasien and Seraye, but in Hazega he had to face another strong opponent: Woldemichael Solomon, who was able to defeat him and seize control of Hamasien by 1868.

Mereb Melash would gain international significance during the reign of Emperor Yohannes IV when it was defended against Egyptian expansionism during the Egyptian–Ethiopian War. In December 1875, a local ruler of the province, Woldemichael Solomon, submitted to the Egyptians at Massawa. This allowed the Egyptians to occupy the entire province with minimal resistance and build a large fort at Gura. However, Ras Alula would defeat the Egyptians at the Battle of Gura, forcing them to withdraw from the province. Following this victory, Ras Alula was declared the governor of Mereb Melash and was authorized to crush the opposition in the province. Alula defeated the followers of Woldemichael Solomon and imprisoned him, but Bahta Hagos evaded capture and allied himself with the Egyptian garrison at Sanhit. In June 1884, the Hewett Treaty was signed, which allowed the Ethiopians to gain free access to Massawa in exchange for the rescue of Egyptian garrisons besieged by the Mahdists. Alula tried to reach the Egyptians at Kassala, but as the Italians landed at Massawa and began their encroachment inland, Alula was forced to abandon this effort. Frustrated and distrustful of the local tribes, Alula allowed his men to massacre the Kunama and Nara tribes in November 1886. In January 1887, Alula attacked the Italians at Saati, but was beaten back with heavy losses. He subsequently ambushed an Italian battalion sent to reinforce Saati at the Battle of Dogali. In December 1889, Yohannes IV called Alula and his troops up to support him in his fight against the Mahdists, which allowed the Italians to march down from Massawa and seize all of Mereb Melash.

Following the death of Yohannes at the Battle of Gallabat, Tigray was completely exhausted from decades of uninterrupted wars. It could no longer challenge the Italians to the north or the Amharas to the south. Menelik II was later recognized as the new emperor, thus cementing Shoan domination over Ethiopia. The loss of Mereb Melash was recognized by Menelik in the Treaty of Wuchale."

Menhelicks (talk) 03:54, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

This is an accurate and unbiased history of the region and none of this information is incorrect. I will request a third opinion or an administrator to mediate this dispute since once again, you fail to articulate your problems with this article. Socialwave597 (talk) 16:47, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

He’s been blocked. I’m gonna reword that sentence liked I said is that’s okay Kowal2701 (talk) 09:03, 3 October 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia editors and Ethiopian activists are censoring and undermining eritrean history and Eritrean pages. We need mediation from Wikipedia admins Eritreannp (talk) 05:51, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

Bahr Negasi was the title of the ruler of Medri Bahri, the historical kingdom located in what is now the Eritrean highlands. The term literally means “Ruler of the Sea” in Ge’ez/Tigrinya.

It was a hereditary or semi‑hereditary noble title, similar to a regional king or governor, with authority over the provinces of Hamasien, Seraye, and Akele Guzai, and Dankalia with the capital at Debarwa.

-The title first appears clearly during the reign of Emperor Zara Yaqob (1433–1468). - There is also an even earlier reference in a Zagwe‑era land grant (11th century), where a Bahr Negasi is listed as one of the king’s appointed officials.

This shows the title is at least 900 years old.

Role and Power of the Bahr Negasi

The Bahr Negasi was:

- Leader of Medri Bahri - Commander of its armies - Controller of Red Sea trade routes - A semi‑autonomous ruler, sometimes allied with or resisting the Ethiopian emperors - A key figure in wars against Adal and the Ottomans

The most famous Bahr Negasi is Yeshaq, who fought alongside the Portuguese and the Ethiopian Empire against Imam Ahmad Gragn in the 1540s.

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Famous Bahr Negasi: Yeshaq

- Ruled in the mid–late 16th century - Provided troops, supplies, and intelligence to the Portuguese commander Christovão da Gama - Played a decisive role in the Ethiopian–Adal war - Later rebelled against the Ethiopian emperors when his autonomy was threatened

Bahr Negasi = the ruler of Medri Bahri, a powerful northern kingdom in the Horn of Africa. He was a king‑like figure who controlled the Eritrean highlands, commanded armies, and influenced Red Sea politics for centuries.

Medri Bahri was Eritrean soil, that has its own leadership, administration and reginal communities that has its own strong history, which was always in struggle to defend from the Abissinian small emperors. Those emperor land stealers or occupires, which killed and murder thousands people in the Eritrean (Medri Bahri communities) for the seek of expanding their power, but they couldn't won to defeat Bahri Negassi, the leadership of Medri bahri that time. As a result of repeated invasion Bof the Abissinian emperors Bahri Negassi forced to ally with Turkish colonisers for their total defeat.

There was no Ethiopia as a country and as a name. Ethiaopia created in 1948 after the scond world war. AdiamF (talk) 07:17, 23 February 2026 (UTC)