Talk:Muslim Gurjars

Anpanman11, Please first get consensus here. How sources I've cited are not reliable about population estimates? First your edit was with mis leading edit summary. Now you are edit waring here. First of all it doesn't matter what I think or not. What recently published sources said only matters. My edit is reliable or not discuss on article talk page get consensus that's the only way to colloborate with other editors on Wikipedia. If do you have any recently published reliable sources that said their population is different in numbers you can cite such sources also, but you can not remove sources those I cited because this doesn't even make a sense you need to clarify how sources I've cited are not reliable regarding their population estimates before such removal in future. Sybercracker (talk) 14:51, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11, Population Geography: A Journal of the Association of Population Geographers of India, Volumes 10-12 you cited here is much older than recent published scholarly sources. Also this outdated source also not mention anything Gujjar population in this Census was included from Azad Kashmir, Gilgit-Baltistan, KPK also or not. You need to add page numbers and quotes from the sources for the verification. Snipe views from Google books are not just for the verification. Also this source is outdated when I've cited recently published scholarly sources. Sybercracker (talk) 15:04, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

And in less than three decades they increased by 10x? How difficult is it for you to realise your sources have no academic value? Also, editing doesn’t require consensus. You're new to wiki, not me. Anpanman11 (talk) 15:11, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11 You can provide Quotes from the sources of Population Geography: A Journal of the Association of Population Geographers of India, Volumes 10-12? Because snap views from Google books can not verify the claim because im snipe views we can read entire context of the estimation or claim. Also go and read Jat Muslim on this article we have cited only recently published scholarly source not any govt backed source or outdated source of 1998.Sybercracker (talk) 15:15, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

You see you don't even know how to use Google Books and you want to edit on Wiki. The total Muslim Gujjar population is 4,478,100 as per the book. Can't believe I have to spell out simple stuff to these buffoons Anpanman11 (talk) 15:28, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11 Please go and read again in this outdated Indian Journal (Population Geography: A Journal of the Association of Population Geographers of India, Volumes 10-12)

in which population estimates is only regarding the Jat, Rajput, Ahirs & Gujjars of Indian subcontinent published in 1998 totally outdated for president situation. Also this sources is not about Muslims Gujjars especially or Pakistani Gujjars. The recently published scholarly sources I've cited here are only about Pakistani population. Your source didn't mention about Pakistan it only mentioned wrong numbers not just about Gujjars but also in your journal estimations are wrong about Jats and Rajput population. Now you will also check how Jat, Ahir, Jat population also increased? If increased 10% or 5%. You can not cite outdated unreliable journal because I've added recently published scholarly sources how my sources are not reliable you need to explain. Any further reverts on this page will violate Three rules policy. Sybercracker (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11 "The total Muslim Gujjar population is 4,478,100 as per the book."? Your source is a outdated journal published in Indian only about Jat, Rajput, Gujjar, Ahir population of India not about the Muslim Gujjar population of Pakistan. How a outdated Indian Journal can correctly confirm the population of Gujjars in Pakistan? Even when your journal is outdated? I've cited sources here are one from Hazara government university of KPK, Hazara region second sources is a book or well known pakistani author. Sybercracker (talk) 15:33, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11 You were wrong here I've read the sources and here is the full context and quotes from the source:

(estimation for India) In India, the population of these communities is 9% (71,480,124 out of 800,000,000) of the total population. The corresponding figure for Pakistan is 21% (22,916,047 out of 110,000,000). Amongst themselves the Rajputs (30,913,520) account for the biggest chunk of 44%, followed by Jats 24% (18,153,513), Ahirs 24% (17,083,813) and Gujars 8%(5,329,278). Rajputs, Jats, Ahirs and [Gujars] respectively form 3.9%. 2.3%, 2.1% and [0.7%] of the total popula-tion of India.

(Estimation for pakistan) In Pakistan, within these communities, "56% (12,912,740) are Jats", 30% (6,882.336) Rajputs, "14% (3,107,879) Gujars", and the remaining 10,072 Ahirs.

Sybercracker (talk) 16:06, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

On page numbers 2-3 it is mentioned that this journal is based on the 1933 caste census of India held by British government and is unreliable for Wikipedia. This source is not just outdated but also unreliable because it claimed that the (Ahir, Jat, Rajput, Gujjar 4-communities in which 56% population belong to Jat, 30% Rajput, 14% Gujjar) belong to these communities that is totally incorrect and not confirmed by any recently published scholarly sources or even by any Pakistani authorities. As in this sources it is only claimed that 14% population belong to Gujjars in Pakistan. Even this source is not reliable how this is still not possible for you to believe their population increases from 14% to 20% in last 37-38 years. When your cited Journal of 1988 (on page number-7) claimed in Pakistan Gujjar constitute 14% now recently published sources claimed they constitute 20% mean increase their population 6% increase. Sybercracker (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

i have British era censuses as well, Gujjars didn't even make 10% of Panjab's population. You really need to get yourself checked if you believe there are 33 million Gujjars in Pakistan. According to 1931 Census, Gujjar male population was 280,000 in both Panjabs. Anpanman11 (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

@Anpanman11 British census are not reliable please read first and correct yourself. I'm not concerned about Punjab's population recently published sources said 20% /33 million population of Gujjars in Pakistan. Your old outdated Journal that is based on 1931/1933 Caste census of British, India is not reliable even your cited Journal said in India Muslim Gujjars population is 44 lakh, but in Pakistan source said Gujjar constitute 14% but there is no mention of numbers of Muslim Gujjars in Pakistan in your provided journal. Sybercracker (talk) 10:06, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Sybercracker, Anpanman11, both of you are edit warring on this page. I've protected the page for one week to encourage you to work towards a consensus rather than reinstating edits. In particular, Sybercracker, as the editor introducing new changes that have been disputed, the onus is on you to establish a consensus for your desired changes after another editor expresses an objection. Engaging with the DRN request that has been opened is one way to do that, although WP:3O and WP:RfCs are also options for moving towards consensus. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:01, 14 July 2025 (UTC)