Talk:Orphic Hymns

The Religious Significance section talks about sacrifices called for in the hymns, one of which is "manna" that links to he page in the Biblical substance of that name.

Do the Orphic Hymns from Greece specifically mention the word "manna" or is this a translation of a similar but distinct term? if the text doesn't use the actual word "manna" then including it here without at least an explanation is misleading/confusing.

Anyone know for sure? Mastakos (talk) 05:45, 24 June 2026 (UTC)

I'm sure Michael Aurel can give you a more informed reply, but briefly, yes, the word used in the Greek text of the Orphic Hymns is μάννα. In non-Christian Greek sources manna is a type of incense closely related to frankincense (λίβανος). The Materia Medica attributed to Dioscorides (1.83) calls it μάννα λιβάνου ("manna of frankincense"), and in the Orphic Hymns it is occasionally called λιβανομάννα. I'm not qualified to comment on the Hebrew word, except to say that in biblical exegesis it obviously acquires a metaphysical and theological significance that has little to do with this strictly botanical sense. Choliamb (talk) 14:38, 24 June 2026 (UTC)

@Michael Aurel, I meant to comment on the FAC last year but am just now remembering! This article would certainly benefit from a few sentences on the musical content of the Orphic hymns. Presumably all of the music is lost, but that at the very least should be stated explicitly. Of course, if you've come across any scholarly theories speculating on what nature of the musical content in question, that would go along nicely. To not address it at all is almost certainly confusing for our readers, who will find a conundrum on an article with "Hymns" in the title.

I left a similar comment on the FAC for the Orphic Hymns, which resulted in a nice new paragraph, some of which could probably be transferred over here with ease. At the very least, I think, a single sentence clarifying that such music is lost is essential. Aza24 (talk) 21:33, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, Aza24. I remember Gerda asking a similar question in the PR. The main reason the article hasn't touched upon the potential role of music in the performance of the Hymns is that very, very little has been written on the subject. (This is surprising, given recent scholarship's focus on the collection's phonic qualities, its performance context, and the experience of the ancient listener!) Aside from a PhD thesis, the only sources I know of with relevant information are Morand and Athanassakis & Wolkow, who remark that the hymns might have been performed with musical accompaniment, and Rudhardt, who comments that the Hymns should be viewed as prayers rather than songs. I've added a sentence which brings together what these sources say, for now appending it to the paragraph in the "Religious significance" section about the rite in which the Hymns featured. The paragraph at Homeric Hymns does the job nicely there, but I'm not sure much of it would transfer over (the two collections have disparate contexts). What might work is a short explanation of how ancient Greek hymns were often performed, although it would need to avoid implying that the Orphic Hymns are representative of the genre; Furley and Bremer's Greek Hymns calls them "hardly representative specimens of Greek hymns" (p. 49). – Michael Aurel (talk) 04:19, 21 July 2026 (UTC)