Talk:Patrick McGuire (solicitor)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

• What I think should be changed: Additions to Notable Cases section as follows:
• McFarlane v Scottish Borders Council involved a road worker who was building a passing place but suffered injury when his vehicle rolled down a steep embankment. The case tested the parameters of the Construction (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1996 and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998.^[1]

• McGowan v W & JR Watson involved a band saw operating accident in which the claimant injured his hand. The defender's position was that the guard was functioning as it should have been, but Patrick argued that the regulations state dangerous parts must be guarded and there was strict liability in this regard.^[2]

These cases went to the Scottish appeal court, the Inner House of the Court of Session, and established that employers must do everything that is reasonably practicable to avoid risk and to safeguard employees. McGowan was notable as a prima facie case, whereby the employer had to prove they did everything possible to keep their employee safe. Patrick demonstrated to the court that the employer did not and therefore the appeal was upheld.^[3]

In McFarlane, the judge in the first instance dismissed the claim and found the claimant to be 75% negligent. At the Inner House, the court upheld the appeal and 'interfered' with the contributory negligence ruling, reducing this factor to 25%. This was significant as typically the Inner House takes the first instance ruling as 'matter of fact', however, Patrick demonstrated the flawed nature of the initial ruling.^[4]

• Why it should be changed:

These two additional notable cases tested various health and safety legislations and progressed the understanding of how they may be applied. The cases paved the way for greater worker safety and access to justice. The supporting text underneath explains Patricks role in the outcomes of the cases

• References supporting the possible change:

ShimsCabot (talk) 16:10, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 14:27, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Tagishsimon

You have proposed that Patrick McGuire's article be deleted. However, the content which was stripped out recently (in October/November) was the type of content you are now asking for. I have disclosed all my connections to Thompsons Solicitors and respectfully request that the page be left in place until my edit requests are accepted. I will today add content to my Sandbox in respect of Patrick's page, in which there are many news articles and neutral third party sources. The current page is an outdated version which I had nothing to do with and I am aiming to make the page better. Patrick McGuire is a highly regarded lawyer, and campaigner for civil rights and access to justice. ShimsCabot (talk) 09:00, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

" the content which was stripped out recently (in October/November) was the type of content you are now asking for." No. We all have access to diffs. The hagiographic content removed in October does not support a claim to notability. Within it were only two cites about McGuire; one, a fluff piece in the Herald - https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/15661677.thompsons-partner-mcguire-job-much-just-law/ and the other a routine column filler in Scottish Legal News - https://www.scottishlegal.com/article/lawyer-of-the-month-patrick-mcguire

You are not aiming to make the page better. You are aiming to earn your 30 pieces of silver. You are responsible for the farrago of nonsense which was removed in October - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patrick_McGuire_%28solicitor%29&type=revision&diff=1052173230&oldid=1052082378 ... your contribution speaks for itself. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:09, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tagishsimon I will be working on the page in my Sandbox today. When I am finished I will put the details on Patrick McGuire's Talk page. Please see my COI disclosures in terms of my paid work for BORN Thinking. ShimsCabot (talk) 10:27, 2 December 2021 (UTC).

I would like to object to the deletion of Patrick McGuire's page. I have provided updated content in my Sandbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ShimsCabot/sandbox in respect of Patrick's work in the field of mass wrongs, group action litigation, campaigning and other work which is notable. I have provided sources and references to prove reliable, significant coverage of his achievements in seeking justice for groups of people (individuals) and in changing the Scottish justice system to benefit those who have suffered due to other parties' negligence or wrongdoing. I have attempted, to the best of my ability, to keep the text neutral and encyclopaedic

Patrick has worked on some of the most high-profile cases in Scottish legal history, and current litigation he is working on, such as the historical child abuse claims and VW NOx emissions claim, are likely to set legal precedents when they are ruled upon.

One of the comments about the current page content is that it is a routine CV of a personal injury solicitor's work, however, the notable cases included (and those previously added but deleted) all set legal precedents for how UK Health and Safety laws can be applied. The judgments in these cases have meant greater access to justice, fairer compensation and safer work places for individuals and it is this that makes them notable. It would be beneficial to include them on the page but sadly not all were covered in the press so the references consisted mainly of court documents and PDFs of court judgments. In the interests of verifiability I have not included the Notable Cases section in the latest content.

I respectfully ask that the page is not deleted and the content in my Sandbox is uploaded to the page. I welcome any advice and am happy to discuss the article. ShimsCabot (talk) 16:48, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Post Script - The PROD tag says "You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason." As an editor with a COI, I have upheld my declaration that I will not add to or edit Patrick McGuire's page directly and so I have left the tag in place. ShimsCabot (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

You have not demonstrated that this person is notable in terms of WP:N. Were he the legal behemoth of your description, we would expect to find media pieces about him, much as we do for people like Michael Mansfield. Right now we have one fluff piece, one very routine column-filler, and your COI opinion that the cases he works on are somehow so amazing that he inherits notability. I continue to think that deletion is the correct way to go for this article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:17, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined.

• What I think should be changed: Addition of new section

Campaigning -

Patrick has given evidence to Scottish Parliamentary committees on numerous matters including Culpable Homicide^[1], the Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) Bill^[2], the Economic Impact of leaving the European Union^[3], the Living Wage^[4], and Health and Safety in Scotland^[5].

Patrick has lobbied for various changes in the law, including certain sections of the Court Reform Scotland Act 2014, particularly the elements relating to sanction for counsel (when parties should be allowed to have legal representation involved) and that all work-related cases, irrespective of value, should be heard in the All Scotland Personal Injury Court.^[6]

In 2014, Patrick campaigned for a review of the civil justice system in Scotland^[7] and reform of Scotland’s Fatal Accident Inquiry system^[8]. The Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Act 2016 gained Royal assent and passed into law on 14 January 2016, however, Patrick argues that the reforms did not go far enough. During Thompsons' representation of some of the bereaved families in the Clutha bar helicopter disaster he said that “real, progressive change [in fatal accident inquiry procedure] was not a priority for the Government”, adding that it wanted to be “all things to all people” and “didn’t do much to oppose big business and the big insurance companies”.^[9]

He also gave evidence to the 2020 Justice Committee in relation to the Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill. The Bill proposed an amendment to the law relating to culpable homicide to ensure that when loss of life is caused by the recklessness or gross negligence of individuals, companies or organisations, the wrongdoer, when proven, can be convicted of the offence that reflects the appropriate seriousness and moral opprobrium of what occurred.^[10]

In 2021, as a result of the Coronavirus pandemic and the launching of a Scottish public inquiry into how the public health emergency was handled in Scotland, Patrick wrote an open letter to Deputy First Minister John Swinney calling on him to ensure that the terms of reference for the Covid inquiry would give it the necessary powers to provide justice for those who had suffered.^[11]

• Why it should be changed:

This content shows Patrick McGuire's work in respect of campaigning for judicial reform and on behalf of parties who are seeking justice. It is over and above the work he carries out as a solicitor advocate and evidences his influence and notability amongst government and law makers in Scotland.

• References supporting the possible change:

ShimsCabot (talk) 08:26, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Declined. The article is promotional enough as is without adding another resume section with pull quotes. GeneralNotability (talk) 00:12, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

• What I think should be changed and why

The following proposed sections for Patrick McGuire's page provide more information and sources in respect of his work and notability in the field of Scottish Law and Justice.

Patrick works on behalf of groups of people who have collectively experienced wrongs and injustices. He has spent much of his later legal career working on public inquiries and mass litigations as noted below.^[1]

In 2005, Patrick's work with trade unions on corporate homicide led to him being appointed as the STUC's legal adviser to the panel of experts set up by the Justice Minister, Cathy Jamieson, to consider the issue of corporate killing in Scotland. When Labour and SNP stated opposition to the UK Government's Trade Union Bill, Patrick spoke out against Presiding Officer Tricia Marwick and her decision to reject a motion letting Holyrood block the Bill in Scotland.^[31]

In 2021, Patrick worked alongside "Scotland's biggest unions to represent workers" in the aftermath of the coronavirus pandemic, representing those whose employers failed to protect them from COVID-19 in the course of their employment.^[32]

Patrick is on the Board of Directors for Wellbeing Scotland and fully supports the Charity's work.^[33]

As a campaigning lawyer, Patrick has supported Scottish Hazards in their work seeking justice for bereaved families whose loved ones died in occupational accidents.^[34]

He also supports and works with Show Racism the Red Card^[35] and is a Treasurer/Trustee/Director of Bo'ness United JFC (Bo'ness Athletic Football Club).^[36]

I made most of the edits recommended under trade unions and charity work. Much of the other edit requests are written like a resume or public relations piece. Other editors are encouraged to take a look and give further consideration to these or similar edits. I would also recommend independent editors review the entire article under the same pretense. The article could use a good review to better comply with WP:NPOV standards. Go4thProsper (talk) 22:12, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Having not heard any objections from other editors in the months since the prior edit discussion, I have also added the cases discussed and suggested in the mass wrongs section. As with my other previous edits incorporated from the edit request, other interested editors are encouraged to review these edits and weigh in with opinions. I will not object if other editors decide these additions should be trimmed or removed altogether. Go4thProsper (talk) 03:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

• Lawyer of the Month May 2020 – Scottish Legal News^[37]
• Legal Personality of the Year 2014 – Scottish Legal Awards^[38]

• References supporting the possible change:

ShimsCabot (talk) 10:10, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Dear editors,

In respect of the orphan tag on Patrick McGuire's page - I added an edit request on the Penrose Inquiry Talk Page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Penrose_Inquiry on 8 September 2022. The Penrose Inquiry page mentions the solicitor for the Inquiry, but not the solicitor for victims. Patrick McGuire represented Haemophilia Scotland and the Scottish Infected Blood Forum at the Inquiry and was the recognised legal representative for those affected by infected blood.

I have included references for these statements on my COI request and other proposed edits (one of which has already been added to the page). If this information is added to the Penrose Inquiry page, a link could be placed to Patrick McGuire's page and the issue of it being an orphan page would be resolved. I look forward to any advice or assistance you can give. ShimsCabot (talk) 08:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done If/when the link is made at Penrose Inquiry, you can reopen this request. Z1720 (talk) 18:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)