Talk:Rebel Moon
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| On 30 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Rebel Moon – Part One: A Child of Fire. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Rebel Moon
User:InfiniteNexus has changed the title back to Rebel Moon claiming it's not the official title. Rebel Moon is divided into two parts, the first part is titled "A Child of Fire". It's basically like Harry Potter 7 and 8. Even Netflix makes it clear these are actual titles for the parts (https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/rebel-moon-release-date-photos).
Start your hunt into the mysteries of Rebel Moon when Part 1, titled Rebel Moon — Part One: A Child of Fire, lands on Dec. 22. Rebel Moon Part Two: The Scargiver will follow very soon after, streaming on Netflix on April 19, 2024.
Also InfiniteNexus, you did not try to ask for any consensus before changing the title. The title had been there without any issue until you changed it. Please seek a consensus first. Linkin Prankster (talk) 04:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Consensus is not required to do something; however, consensus can reverse an action if editors agree that the action was misguided or inappropriate. I did my research before making the move, and all evidence points to Rebel Moon being the actual title:
- The film's poster and logo, while missing a billing block, use Rebel Moon
- The trailer on YouTube uses Rebel Moon in the title
- The film's socials continue to use Rebel Moon as its display name and in its bio
- The official press site and Tudum use Rebel Moon
- The press release you cited above refers to the film releasing in December as Rebel Moon in all instances except once in the final paragraph
- In virtually every news article covering the trailer, the film is still referred to as Rebel Moon except maybe once at the end, so this remains the WP:COMMONAME.
- Until a billing block is released, we have to go with the evidence we currently have. As of now, the overwhelming evidence points to Rebel Moon being the correct title. "Part One" subtitles as a stylization or for marketing purposes are not exactly uncommon. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Rebel Moon is the title of the combined film consisting of two parts. It's not that hard to understand. It's your WP:BURDEN to seek a consensus for a controversial change given no one else has had a problem with the title and it's been there for a while. I'm going to seek a RfC on the title. Linkin Prankster (talk) 05:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Btw as for your evidence:
- The poster is actually from before the titles for both parts were revealed, the poster was released in July 2023.
- The trailer clearly says "Part 1: A Child of Fire" releases on December 22, 2023 and "Part 2: Scargiver" on April 18, 2024.
- The film's socials are for both parts and were set up before the title reveals.
- The official press site and Tudum's Rebel Moon information predates Gamescom.
- I don't know why you keep ignoring my press release clearly says Rebel Moon is divided into two parts:
Start your hunt into the mysteries of Rebel Moon when Part 1, titled Rebel Moon — Part One: A Child of Fire, lands on Dec. 22. Rebel Moon Part Two: The Scargiver will follow very soon after, streaming on Netflix on April 19, 2024.
- Every news article clearly says Rebel Moon is divided intp two parts. Linkin Prankster (talk) 05:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Whoa, hold your horses! Do NOT start an RfC, that is contrary to the purpose and procedure of an RfC. FYI, you are permitted by WP:BOLDMOVE to revert my move while we discuss here. WP:BURDEN is about added unreferenced content to article, and in any case, I have listed my sources. As for your rebuttals, I am not denying that Part 1 is called A Child of Fire. I am saying even though such title exists in marketing materials, evidence points to the fact that the "official" title of the film is just Rebel Moon. The Twitter bio literally says
War Comes to Every World. REBEL MOON. December 22. Only on Netflix.
(bolding my own). Nowhere online can I find a logo with a subtitle, and the Tudum page was clearly updated after the trailer was released. And finally, to reiterate, the press release you cited says[...] before Rebel Moon lands on Dec. 22
and[...] Rebel Moon premieres on Dec. 22
before mentioning the subtitles once in the final paragraph. Again, I would like to point out that Dune was also known as Dune: Part One, and F9 was also marketed as F9: The Fast Saga. Neither of those were the official titles. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:35, 27 August 2023 (UTC)- It's not, especially since it's clear early on only a consensus can resolve this. Besides I think it's important we have the whole community comment on the matter of titles for multi-part films as it doesn't comcern just one. Rebel Moon was used as the title before the first part of the title was revealed, I don't know why you don't understand that.
The final reveal of the trailer is a tantalizing one: the announcement of the two Rebel Moon films’ release dates. Rebel Moon — Part One: A Child of Fire hits Netflix this Dec. 22, but the story doesn’t end there — only four months later (April 19, 2024, to be exact), Rebel Moon Part Two: The Scargiver arrives to close the loop.
- This is from Netflix's press release about the Gamescom trailer. Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Let me begin by reiterating two points: one, you are permitted by WP:BOLDMOVE to revert my move while we discuss; two, you cannot start an RfC until significant discussion has occurred, per WP:RFCBEFORE. Even if no other editors join in this discussion, there are more appropriate dispute resolution methods such as WP:3O and WP:DRN. Now, regarding your point that
Rebel Moon was used as the title before the first part of the title was revealed, I don't know why you don't understand that
, find me an official logo or poster or banner that says "Rebel Moon: Part One – A Child of Fire". A Google Search on my part yielded nothing. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:49, 27 August 2023 (UTC)- @Linkin Prankster: Stop re-reverting. You are edit-warring. Discuss here. I have pointed you to WP:RFCBEFORE multiple times. Please follow the rules. Ignoring my pleas and RFCBEFORE is disruptive behavior. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I have told you multiple times the title of the two parts is different. Also RfCs do not require a long discussion.
RfCs are time consuming, and editor time is valuable. Before using the RfC process to get opinions from outside editors, it's often faster and more effective to thoroughly discuss the matter with any other parties on the related talk page. Editors are expected to make a reasonable attempt at resolving their issues before starting an RfC.
- Basically it's faster to have a thorough discussion, nowhere does it say it's required. Editors are only expected to make a reasonable attempt. I did and it's clear you won't listen. Find me a rule saying the title of the part is required on a poster or a banner. Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- @InfiniteNexus: Can you please tell me how many times have you reverted? You're edit-warring yourself. Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:57, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. Twice. 1 2. Your reverts: 1 2 3. Notice I've stopped reverting as well, because edit-wars are never productive. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sure you've read
Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
I won't revert again either, but please do not say as if you did not edit war. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:08, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sure you've read
- Sure. Twice. 1 2. Your reverts: 1 2 3. Notice I've stopped reverting as well, because edit-wars are never productive. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) You are misinterpreting RFCBEFORE. You started the RfC after I made a single comment. It is not possible to come to a conclusion that a discussion is going nowhere after two exchanges. You can't come to the conclusion that
[I] won't listen
and start an RfC just like that.Reasonable attempt
means at least several messages, several days of discussion, and several editors having a chance to weigh in. Your failure to understand this is troublesome. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:01, 27 August 2023 (UTC)- I've been here long enough to know when a person will stonewall. You made a whole long paragraph with several outdated links or misunderstand what they're about. That was enough. What's more troublesome is you trying to close a RfC that's about you too, you ignoring you're edit-warring yourself, you basically repeating the same points. You can't even bother to seek another admin's input on whether I can start a RfC this early or not. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- You don't seem to be assuming good faith, which is one of the core tenets of Wikipedia. That is concerning behavior that hinders the consensus-building process. You hastily arrived at the conclusion that I was unwilling to budge after I made a single comment, you don't seem to understand how RfCs operate, and you slapped an edit-warring template on my talk page after I made two reverts (and then stopped). I'm seeing a WP:CIR issue here. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- It's not that I'm assuming any bad faith on your part or that you're a disruptive editor. I just don't want to spend time on discussions that I reasonably think will go nowhere, I've done that too many times in past. I'm sick and have digestion problems, I lose energy easily. So I'm sorry I don't have it in me to try to make people see what I do. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:20, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- This comment is very concerning. If you are unwilling to engage in discussion once you
reasonably think [they] will go nowhere
, Wikipedia editing may not be for you — I don't mean this as an insult, WP:COMMUNICATION and patience is required to reach consensus. While I sympathize with your health issues, they are not valid excuses for disruptive behavior. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:24, 27 August 2023 (UTC)- The RfC can reach a consensus on its own, there's no policy on me needing to have a long discussion with you. My health issues are no "excuses", but the reason I can't continue further. Goodbye, I'll let others give their opinion on it. If the RfC is closed, I'll seek a normal consensus and apologise for misunderstanding. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:26, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- This comment is very concerning. If you are unwilling to engage in discussion once you
- It's not that I'm assuming any bad faith on your part or that you're a disruptive editor. I just don't want to spend time on discussions that I reasonably think will go nowhere, I've done that too many times in past. I'm sick and have digestion problems, I lose energy easily. So I'm sorry I don't have it in me to try to make people see what I do. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:20, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- You don't seem to be assuming good faith, which is one of the core tenets of Wikipedia. That is concerning behavior that hinders the consensus-building process. You hastily arrived at the conclusion that I was unwilling to budge after I made a single comment, you don't seem to understand how RfCs operate, and you slapped an edit-warring template on my talk page after I made two reverts (and then stopped). I'm seeing a WP:CIR issue here. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've been here long enough to know when a person will stonewall. You made a whole long paragraph with several outdated links or misunderstand what they're about. That was enough. What's more troublesome is you trying to close a RfC that's about you too, you ignoring you're edit-warring yourself, you basically repeating the same points. You can't even bother to seek another admin's input on whether I can start a RfC this early or not. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- @InfiniteNexus: Can you please tell me how many times have you reverted? You're edit-warring yourself. Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:57, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Let me begin by reiterating two points: one, you are permitted by WP:BOLDMOVE to revert my move while we discuss; two, you cannot start an RfC until significant discussion has occurred, per WP:RFCBEFORE. Even if no other editors join in this discussion, there are more appropriate dispute resolution methods such as WP:3O and WP:DRN. Now, regarding your point that
- (edit conflict) Whoa, hold your horses! Do NOT start an RfC, that is contrary to the purpose and procedure of an RfC. FYI, you are permitted by WP:BOLDMOVE to revert my move while we discuss here. WP:BURDEN is about added unreferenced content to article, and in any case, I have listed my sources. As for your rebuttals, I am not denying that Part 1 is called A Child of Fire. I am saying even though such title exists in marketing materials, evidence points to the fact that the "official" title of the film is just Rebel Moon. The Twitter bio literally says
Thank you, Lindsay. Linkin, please listen to experienced editors' advice next time. Now, to get back to more productive discussion: the deciding factor for me is the fact that all logos, posters, and banners for the film that is coming out in December use "Rebel Moon", without the subtitle; the Twitter bio and the press site are also strong evidence (updated or not, that's on Netflix, not us). To be clear, I am not opposed to moving this page if evidence for it emerges in the future (for example, a logo with the subtitle, or a billing block with the subtitle), but it is too early to tell right now (WP:NORUSH). I see even IMDb, while not a reliable source, has yet to rename their article either. But I'll give a chance for other editors to weigh in. InfiniteNexus (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
RfC for title
- The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Hello, recently during Gamescom Netflix revealed the title of first two parts of Rebel Moon as "A Child of Fire" and "Scargiver". User InfiniteNexus changed the title back to Rebel Moon from Rebel Moon: Part One – A Child of Fire, insisting that it's only a marketing/onscreen title and not an official one. However Rebel Moon is the title of the whole story divided into two parts. It's also being called a film in itself despite being divided into two parts .
The recent Netflix release makes this clear: Start your hunt into the mysteries of Rebel Moon when Part 1, titled Rebel Moon — Part One: A Child of Fire, lands on Dec. 22. Rebel Moon Part Two: The Scargiver will follow very soon after, streaming on Netflix on April 19, 2024.
.
The Gamescom trailer on YouTube clearly says "Part 1: A Child of Fire" releases on December 22, 2023 and "Part 2: Scargiver" on April 18, 2024.
Virtually every evidence InfiniteNexus has used to claim the official title is Rebel Moon is either before Gamescom or he's misunderstanding that it's using Rebel Moon for the film divided into two parts. But we even if we don't create articles for separate parts of the same film story, we never use the title of the whole story of multiple parts for a single part. You wouldn't call Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 as Batman: The Dark Knight Returns.
So I suggest this article either be only for the first part and the title Rebel Moon: Part One – A Child of Fire be restored, or this article represent both the parts and not just the first one (at least until the second part can be considered notable enough to get its own article). Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:35, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment My attempts to speedily close this discussion have been repeatedly and disruptively reverted by the RfC's initiator, who opened this RfC after three comments in the discussion above — the original post by them, my reply, and their response to my reply. This is in clear violation of WP:RFCBEFORE. My requests to ask the editor to continue discussing in the thread above before considering an RfC have been rejected, with the editor insisting that only an uninvolved editor can speedy close this. So, I am asking just that from whoever comes along first. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:10, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I considered his comment and I do not think he will listen. He made a whole long paragraph with several outdated links or misunderstand what they're about. I even tried after the RfC to explain about the film title and he still won't listen. WP:RFCBEFORE only demands a reasonable attempt at solving the issue. Also User:InfiniteNexus has violated WP:RFCEND three times. It clearly says who can close a RfC,
Any uninvolved editor can post a closing summary of the discussion; if consensus is undoubtedly clear, even an editor involved may close the discussion. The editor removes the
Not an involved one. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC){{rfc}}tag while closing the discussion.- I really don't want to drag this on any further, but I have noted elsewhere that it has become clear this is a WP:CIR situation. Also, as I have clearly explained to the editor, it is permissible for involved editors to make procedural closes — in this case, to comply with RFCBEFORE. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- RFCBEFORE only requires a reasonable attempt, not a long discussion. And you've violated WP:RFCEND three times. Linkin Prankster (talk) 07:23, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I really don't want to drag this on any further, but I have noted elsewhere that it has become clear this is a WP:CIR situation. Also, as I have clearly explained to the editor, it is permissible for involved editors to make procedural closes — in this case, to comply with RFCBEFORE. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- I considered his comment and I do not think he will listen. He made a whole long paragraph with several outdated links or misunderstand what they're about. I even tried after the RfC to explain about the film title and he still won't listen. WP:RFCBEFORE only demands a reasonable attempt at solving the issue. Also User:InfiniteNexus has violated WP:RFCEND three times. It clearly says who can close a RfC,
- (Summoned by bot) Close this RfC; there has not been prior discussion, there is no evidence that other editors (the two of you are literally the only ones currently "discussing" the question) cannot help arrive at a conclusion without the necessity for a formal RfC. I have no opinion on the matter ~ i don't even know what it's about ~ but it is clear that you, Linkin Prankster, do not seem to be approaching the question with an open mind and good faith assumptions. My suggestion is to close this and both wait for others to chime in ~ as i read it it is still under five hours since the dispute first arose; plenty of time.... Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 09:04, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- @LindsayH: I'm not assuming bad faith, but I didn't want to spend time and energy if it became a long discussion. I'll close the RfC and try to seek a consensus normally. Linkin Prankster (talk) 09:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
