Talk:Recruit Training Command, Great Lakes, Illinois

There is an article on the Enterprise building that some people want to delete. They have already replaced the article with a redirect. The article is reproduced below:--Toddy1 (talk) 14:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC) USS Enterprise (BLDG 7115)
Great Lakes, IL
Commissioned: May 27, 2005]]

USS Enterprise (BLDG 7115) is a commissioned building located at Recruit Training Command on Naval Station Great Lakes in Great Lakes, Illinois.^[1]

The USS Enterprise Recruit Barracks Building was built as part of a $763 million recapitalization program. This USS Enterprise is particularly notable since even though it is a building it has been commissioned U.S.S. and it was commissioned while another USS Enterprise (CVN-65) was still in service. Currently this is the only building in the history of the United States to be commissioned USS Enterprise. Approximately 4,775 civilians are transformed into smartly disciplined, physically fit, basically trained sailors aboard this ship each year. The building has a Ship's Officer, who fills the role of Commanding Officer, a Ship's Leading Chief Petty Officer, who fills the role of Command Senior Chief, and a Chaplain.

The building is named after the eight United States ships that have borne the name,^[2] including the two famous aircraft carriers pictured around the building's "quarterdeck". The first is CV-6, which was a ship of the Yorktown class launched in 1936, and one of only three American carriers commissioned prior to World War II to survive the war. The nautical flags hanging on the quarterdeck of BLDG 7115 are from CV-6. The second is CVN-65, the world's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Many of the displays on the quarterdeck of USS Enterprise (BLDG 7115) were donated by the CVN-65 Enterprise.

USS Enterprise (BLDG 7115) has 120,000 square feet (11,000 m²) of space, enough to accommodate 16 recruit divisions of up to 88 recruits each. This facility integrates berthing, classrooms, learning resource centers, a galley, and quarterdeck, all under one roof.

USS Enterprise and the other new barracks are located in a section of Recruit Training Command called Camp John Paul Jones, a 48 acres (0.19 km²) parcel of land that was acquired from the United States Veterans Administration.

Recruit Training Command’s recapitalization project includes the construction of Battle Stations 21, a full-size ship simulator with state-of-the-art special effects designed by the entertainment and theme park industries.

Resolved

This new material looks like a direct word for word copy of http://books.marcoa.com/military/great_lakes_ns/display-magazine.php page 46. Page 3 states the book is copyrighted but published for the USN. Some of the material may have been written by the Navy, but we have no way to tell what parts are USN and what parts are not. I don't think we can just direct copy and paste from this book without knowing what was provided by the USN. It looks like a good source and interesting material, but I'd feel better if it was rewritten, since it has some tone issues as well. --Dual Freq (talk) 02:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

IIRC work for hire for the government doesn't fall under the blanket PD provisions. Should probably rewrite it. Protonk (talk) 03:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

History section is slightly rewritten. Protonk (talk) 03:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Minor rewording doesn't fix copyright problems, the whole section should be redone. There are still whole sentences that are verbatim from the source. Template:Copyviocore says "Note that simply modifying copyrighted text is not sufficient to avoid copyright infringement" --Dual Freq (talk) 11:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I looked at that source. I disagree that the article in current form is a slavish copy of page 46. Before I got to it, yes. Whole paragraphs were lifted. But the current article clearly identifies the source of the information and presents that information. Which sentences in the current revision represent a copyvio? Protonk (talk) 15:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying the entire article is one big copyvio, just the most recent few paragraphs. "Navy boards investigated 37 sites around Lake Michigan." is a word for word quote page 46. "called “The Father of Great Lakes” for his efforts, today North Chicago’s Foss Park--which is immediately north of the base--bears his name." is a direct quote except for it is missing the word "and". "Great Lakes was a pioneer in racial integration of the Navy. In mid-1942, the Navy began accepting African-American enlistments for general service." is a direct quote from page 49 as is the rest of that paragraph. I appreciate the effort that is being made here, I just wanted to point out that much of this edit is a copy and paste of the above source. Since the work appears to be copyrighted I think it needs to be reworked. We're all trying to improve the article, but dumping copyrighted material into the article is not helping improve its creating more work for others. We also have information in the history that is duplicated by the newly dumped / merged building information. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

If you read the entire base directory, somewhere in there it says that the information supplied was published by the Public Affairs Officer unless otherwise noted, since it was noted in that article, that is therefore the Navy's official released info. So I typed it into the article, and referenced the document which gave me permission to do so (and where it came from). I understand the need to protect Wiki from copyright issues, but seriously, do you think the Navy is going to sue you for placing an article online which shows how great RTC is becoming? If anything they would send you a medal... Rossusna02 (talk) 03:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

You honestly think its right to dump material word for word from a copyrighted publication onto a website that has as one of its cornerstones the exclusion of copyrighted, or potentially copyrighted material? As I said before, we don't know who wrote that, it comes from a publisher's web page from a document that says Copyright 2007 on page 3. If this was on some USN PAO website of Great Lakes with some sailor's name listed in the by line, I wouldn't have any trouble with this being PD-USN. --Dual Freq (talk) 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Yup, as a US government publication, copyright law states that it is public domain. I don't have time to re-read the directory now to find the page with the disclaimer, but perhaps you can, before you critique any further? Rossusna02 (talk) 03:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright is disclaimed by US government employees acting in their official capacity. Companies working under contract for the government can claim copyright for works they produce. The work displays a copyright claim and prior works of the same style are registered with the copyright office. It is not extreme to suggest that they would pursue copyright claims. they have a right to control distribution of the work and the page should respect that. Let's remove or modify the offending sections in order to eliminate a possible claim of infringement. It doesn't look like there is too much more to do. Protonk (talk) 03:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I made some changes to the lead that have been undone, with the comment that the changes I made reduced the accuracy of the article. I don't think that's the case, but I'd like to get the feelings of the group. My attempt is here, the current (at the time of this posting) is here. I initially made the changes because the lead refered to "United States Navy Basic Training" but was titled "U. S. Navy Recruit Training Command". That issue has been addressed. The remaining issues that I see are: 1. I think the lead should highlight that only enlisted training occurs at RTC 2. Reduce the use of jargon without explaning unfamiliar terms, such as "major tenant command" and "A-schools" 3. Remove the excessive capitalizations and MOS type things. Any thoughts? Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 14:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

1. We do not only train enlisted at Recruit Training Command. We have recently undergone a pilot program to help train select Officer Candidates as well. I'm not sure how much detail I can go into, but stating that we only train enlisted is not a true statement. Rossusna02 (talk) 02:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

2. I can work on explaining the unfamiliar terms. "Tenant Command" and A-School are words that I think are important to keep on the page as they are major descriptions of RTC and what happens after RTC. Rossusna02 (talk) 02:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

3. I will look at the excessive capitalization. I always thought it was proper to capitalize any person, place, or thing, but I am not an English Major, I'm an Engineer. It is local practice to capitalize Sailor, and Recruit Training Command, but not to capitalize recruit, even though I did so in the article. Rossusna02 (talk) 02:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. If you get a chance to adjust it, fine, otherwise I will do so later today, trying to observe the points raised here. I still intend to add a line about recruits = enlisted, but I'll certainly qualify it to indicate that at least some officer candidates are trained there as well. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 13:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well Done! The intro reads well, you have added more factual information, but kept it so that everyone hopefully can understand it. Thanks. Rossusna02 (talk) 15:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Can we arrange a redirect when someone links or searches "RTC Great Lakes"? New guy here trying to be helpful, but I'm not sure how to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.155.10 (talk) 06:33, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

In the "Week 4" section we have a direct contradiction. One paragraph says recruits are trained with shoguns, Mossberg 500s to be precise. The very next paragraph says shotgun training has ceased "after several years."

Which is it? Both statements can't be true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrStiv (talk • contribs) 19:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I have just one question about the article in the Recruit Training Command, Great Lakes, Illinois#Facilities section. Are those all the stations that train Navy recruits, or are there more that this article is not listing? Faithful15 (talk) 17:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)