Talk:Rough Collie

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Origin of the Name

Given the origin of the breed in the Highlands or ‘Gaidhealtacht’ of Scotland/Alba, I am surprised no one has researched what appears to be an obvious connexion between the English word “collie” and “Càilean” (“kah-lin”), the Gàidhlig word for ‘dog’ (or, rather, "pup" or "little dog"; the basic word for dog is "cu" and is cognate to Latin "caninus"); from the Middle Irish, ‘Còilean’ (“cawl-inn”).

98.210.219.30 (talk) 08:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

An author colleague, Kemberlee Shortland, has written to me of the derivation of the word “collie”:
“The Border Collie… was first bred in Ireland! Not the Borders of Scotland. The word Collie is an Anglicized word from an ancient Irish word no longer in use that meant ‘helper’. The Irish word coileán means pup or puppy. That word stemmed from the ancient word for helper.”
“Over the centuries, those dogs moved into England, but because of the farming in the Scottish lowlands, the dogs thrived in the region and large scale breeding came about. Who didn’t want a dog who could fetch sheep from the side of a mountain while you stood in the valley whistling at it?! This is why they became known as the Border Collie, aka the Scottish Border Collie—a collie or helper dog bred in the Borders of Scotland. In reality, they should have been called Irish Collies.”Bold 2600:6C44:617F:68C6:195E:CEE4:F5AB:22B9 (talk) 18:49, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Temperament section

This section concludes "the herding instinct is still very much apparent in the breed today" after saying in the preceding paragraph that the collie now has "little" herding instinct that is "diluted" – which is it?

Added contradiction tag JGHowes talk - 13:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

As a lifelong owner of these dogs, I'd definitely say that the instinct is still apparent, rather than it being diluted. 62.232.17.94 12:27, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I've edited to resolve the "Contradiction" tag accordingly - it's been there long enough. If the editor who originally added the unsourced information can provide info. to substantiate the contradictory statement, please discuss here before changing it. JGHowes talk - 21:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It is apparent in some of these dogs, but others barely show it.I know this from personal experience, and I've changed the article to note this.--SalukiGirl 22:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Being "apparent" and your own personal experience fall under the no original research policy. Sources need to be found to actually support the statements. AnmaFinotera 23:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Mike0001 (talk) 15:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I just removed the following sentence from the Temperment section: "They are typically very gentle and while some individuals may rush to protect their dogs, Lassie is only a myth." I have no idea what this sentence was trying to say, or if it was even vandalism. "...while some individuals may rush to protect their dogs..." from what? What context is this in? "Lassie is only a myth." What does this mean? Is there rampant assertian that Lassie is a "real" collie and not a fictional character? If so, it ought to be citable and clarified. What does this mean? What it is doing here? The the first clause about people "rushing to protect their dogs" refer to some people claiming that Lassie was real (as opposed to a fictional character)? In all, this sentance made no sense. I could not think of anything to do but get rid of it. 72.20.188.122 (talk) 16:29, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

The comment above was made by me. I did not intend it to be anonymous. Somehow, I had gotten logged out. Fish Man (talk) 16:31, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit protect request

Can the page be restored to the version id 189988375? The only contentious issue was the image, and this version fixes issues with the references (there but malformed), MOS fixes (including a missing references tag in the reference section) and some text clean up AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Agree, the version currently protected has broken syntax JGHowes talk - 17:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
This revision, correct? · AndonicO Hail! 18:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Is this what you meant? · AndonicO Hail! 18:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
yes, thanks JGHowes talk - 19:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, thank you. *now goes to cool her head*  :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Can you stick the image in till Collectonium cools down please? Mike0001 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
No, because that was the source of controversy, not the other edits. And I wouldn't need to cool down if you'd quit trying to shove an unnecessary image in just because you took it. AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
AnmaFinotera, I think you are being terribly bossy here! Why not let Mike0001 put the image on? 86.149.32.64 (talk) 14:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia has guidelines about articles, and adding the image would not follow them. Presuming you are not Mike just not logged in, I explained to him how he could improve the article in a way that would then possibly allow the addition of his image, but he doesn't seem to want to actually do that. He only appears to want to add his image and do nothing to really improve the article. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:08, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
OK,let us look at the reasons given so far for non-inclusion. (a) Because I took the picture! (b) Because the picture might possibly be my pet. (c) Because I like the picture. (d) Because the article is too short. ( I agree there, but every time I try to edit you undo.) As for improving, I have already offered to reword the following: Viewed from front or side, head resembles a well-blunted clean wedge, being smooth in outline. Skull flat. Sides taper gradually and smoothly from ears to end of black nose, without prominent cheek bones or pinched muzzle. Viewed in profile, top of skull and top of muzzle lie in two parallel straight lines of equal length divided by a slight, but perceptible stop or break. A mid-point between inside corner of eyes (which is centre of a correctly placed stop) is centre of balance in length of head. End of smooth, well rounded muzzle blunt, never square. Under jaw strong, clean cut. Depth of skull from brow to underpart of jaw never excessive (deep through). Nose always black. Mike0001 (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Content needs to be in actual prose, not a list of bullet points without the bullets. It also needs a source. And no, reasons given are primarily because the article is too short to support another image and the image illustrates nothing discussed in the text at this time. The other three are the reasons for your being obsessed with adding the image and starting an edit war. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC):

Can we reach some sort of compromise on this issue? The picture is actually quite good and does illustrate well a distinguishing feature of the collie. We just need some good text to go with it. As a former collie owner, I know that collies were bred with the Russian bolshoi[sp?] to get a more "noble" head but it is also a source of vision problems for the breed. If someone can do some more research on this, I think it would be fine to have the picture on the article since it is a good picture of the subject. Just throwing out a suggestion there to help resolve an issue with two people both trying to help in different ways.Comatose51 (talk) 07:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment!  :-) Mike0001 (talk) 16:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorting out the problem, hopefully

Edit Request

Interbreeding with Borzoi

Unprotecting

Recent edits

First picture listed...

Long-haired collie

pictures

Challenging statement in temperament section that the collie does not do well outdoors.

collie info

Assessment comment

Relationship to Shetland Sheepdog

Herding section

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