Talk:Sled dog

I would like to re-open a discussion for creating a separate article for the Alaskan Husky. Since the merger with this page in 2019 there has been extensive independent scientific research on the genetic makeup of the Alaskan Husky genome, notably the research of Dr. Heather Huson to name just one. It seems the 2019 discussion which resulted in the merger was one of resignation until more work could be done on the article, which I feel re-igniting would be important to the breed's notability and history as a working dog outside of purebred club politics. I'm unsure if this is the best place to open this discussion, but since it is where the Alaskan husky page ended up, I thought I would start here Mcfuggins (talk) 02:34, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I completely agree. There are so many great peer reviewed studies and historical content available that this breed truly deserves its own page. I did go and add a blurb about the Alaskan husky on the husky page itself as well as the Labrador husky which also got deleted. I'd like to fix the laika page as well, it's a hot mess. --Annwfwn (talk) 13:07, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Annwfwn, these pages were merged after this discussion. I would support its recreation if ... multiple reliable sources can be found that provide significant coverage about the breed itself, otherwise the current arrangement should be maintained. Regards, Cavalryman (talk) 22:59, 28 July 2021 (UTC).

I will start to search for more current research regarding the Alaskan Husky as a distinct breed. How does the compiling of a page for proposal occur? Mcfuggins (talk) 20:01, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Here are my sources thus far:

• Participation in a 1,000-mile race increases the oxidation of carbohydrate in Alaskan sled dogs
• Using multiple markers to elucidate the ancient, historical and modern relationships among North American Arctic dog breeds
• A genetic dissection of breed composition and performance enhancement in the Alaskan sled dog
• Seasonal variations in caloric intake of dogs living in an arctic environment
• The Iditarod: Alaskan Challenge

--Annwfwn (talk) 20:21, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

These are excellent sources, and were some of the ones I had collected as well. Can we get these into a draft page to begin creation of the article? Mcfuggins (talk) 21:49, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello @Annwfwn and Mcfuggins:, I have had a look at the sources you have presented here to see if they meet WP:GNG, which states: A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject

• Participation in a 1,000-mile race increases the oxidation of carbohydrate in Alaskan sled dogs

→ reliable & independent Y

→ significant coverage N bearing in mind any discussion about lipids as predominant substrates during submaximal exercise is padding in a dog breed article, this is probably a little short of "significant" coverage, the best quotes are:

⇒ The Alaskan Husky has been specifically bred for endurance performance and is capable of extreme endurance performance.

⇒ The subspecies Alaskan Husky has been specifically bred for endurance performance.

• Using multiple markers to elucidate the ancient, historical and modern relationships among North American Arctic dog breeds

→ reliable & independent Y

→ significant coverage ? really only useful for sourcing some aspects of the breed's history, the best quotes:

⇒ During the Alaskan Gold Rush, additional sled dogs, possibly of post-colonial derivation, the Alaskan Husky, Malamute and Siberian Husky, were used in the Arctic.

⇒ The Alaskan Husky displayed evidence of European introgression, in contrast to the Malamute and Siberian Husky, which appear to have maintained most of their ancient Siberian ancestry.

⇒ Since European colonization, however, inhabitants of the Arctic have adopted as sled dogs several additional breeds or types, including the Alaskan Husky (created in post-colonial North America) .... Although these types are of similar form and function to the Inuit dog, their genealogical relationships are unclear. The Alaskan Husky of today, which is defined on the basis of (and are bred for) function rather than ancestral ‘purity’, reflects a century or more of admixture (for example, Pointers, Shepherds, Salukis) and selection for performance.

• A genetic dissection of breed composition and performance enhancement in the Alaskan sled dog

→ reliable & independent Y

→ significant coverage Y provided it can be established with a reliable source that "Alaskan sled dog" is an alternate name for "Alaskan Husky".

• Seasonal variations in caloric intake of dogs living in an arctic environment

→ reliable & independent Y

→ significant coverage ? I could only read the abstract which makes no mention of the breed.

• The Iditarod: Alaskan Challenge

→ reliable & independent Y

→ significant coverage ? I could only read the first page which makes no mention of the breed.

I feel that among these there just isn't anything that defines what these dogs are, ie derived from huskies with some outcrosses to various other dog varieties including some gundogs (especially pointers) and sighthounds. That being said ... I have found a reliable and independent source that provides significant coverage, Desmond Morris' fantastic Dogs^[1]. So I think there is enough to recreate the article. I would strongly advise against using the last version as a starting point, I think it needs to be written afresh. I am happy to work with whomever in doing so. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 05:43, 6 September 2021 (UTC).

Thanks for this excellent review, Calvaryman. "Dogs" indeed seems to be an excellent source and is a great find for the basis of the article. I will do some additional searching to see if we can establish an objective definition link between "Alaskan sled dog" and "Alaskan husky" (as you referenced in the article on breed composition and performance enhancement) as referring to the same population. As someone well-versed in mushing personally I know this to be the case, but the article will only be stronger for it if this can be established objectively. Historical sources rather than genetic research may be the better bet with this, as they may better outline the etymology of the terms used to refer to Alaskan village dogs and their descendants as well as shedding light on that evolution in general. I am not yet experienced with creating articles from scratch, but I have to start somewhere and would in fact be interested in taking this on. If there is a way to share access to a draft page, I am happy to do so and make this a true collaborative effort. Thanks Mcfuggins (talk) 11:34, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Commenting again to note the discovery of a book that may have something for this - "Travelers of the Cold, Sled Dogs of the Far North" by Dominique Cellura (ISBN 9780882403748). It appears to document the historical evolution of sled dog breeds alongside the sport, and not in a narrative fashion which seems to often be so common of the subject. I have found no electronic versions of the book, however, and am considering purchasing it myself, unless someone happens to actually own it or be able to reference it somehow. Mcfuggins (talk) 11:53, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Mcfuggins and Cavalryman Perhaps you two could jump in, here is what I have for now. I will be unavailable for a couple of weeks but I'd love to see what others can do. I have not incorporated your sources as I dont have access to the Desmond's Dogs. The other issue I have would be how to handle the husky page vs the sled dog page. The sandbox in question:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Annwfwn/sandbox

--Annwfwn (talk) 22:25, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I have actually completed and submitted (with help from Cavalryman) a new draft which is awaiting review here: Draft:Alaskan husky . I will take a look at your sandbox and see if there are some thing we can add or incorporate. Mcfuggins (talk) 19:20, 8 October 2021 (UTC)