Talk:Snow leopard

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In the first paragraph, the last sentence currently says: "As of 2016, estimates for the size of the global population vary from at least 4,080 to about 8,700 individuals.[3]"

This is misleading. A global population estimate that quotes these numbers was indeed published (see source), but it is not based on peer-reviewed data, and it's validity is disputed by a significant number of experts. See e.g. ^[1] for details.

I suggest therefore to add the following sentence to the paragraph: "However, there is currently no peer-reviewed assessment of the global population that is widely accepted by experts in the field."

For context only: The question of population size is at the core of a larger dispute about the snow leopard's Red List status. Later this month, the IUCN is expected to change the status from Endangered to Vulnerable, which is again being met by some experts with praise, and by others with opposition. See ^[2] for example.

Once this change becomes official, the Wikipedia page will need to be edited accordingly. It's critical that both sides of the debate be given adequate and fair consideration.

Disclosure: I work for Snow Leopard Trust, one of the organizations disputing the claims of a higher population. MatthiasFi (talk) 11:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

It strikes me that there are too many numbers mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article and that they are poorly described. It might be better to put a simple statement that the snow leopard was declared endangered in 2003 based on a declining population and estimates of [the IUCN numbers given then] and possibly add that the current global population is being debated. Then leave the discussion of the different sets of numbers for the population section of the article, where it can be more fully explained. Any reassessment can be added to the lede when it happens.   Jts1882 | talk  13:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 13:47, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

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"In 2013, government leaders and officials from all 12 countries encompassing the snow leopard's range (Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Mongolia, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan) came together at the Global Snow Leopard Forum (GSLF) initiated by the President Almazbek Atambayev of the Kyrgyz Republic, and the State Agency on Environmental Protection and Forestry under the government of the Kyrgyz Republic." to "In 2013, government leaders and officials from all 12 countries encompassing the snow leopard's range (Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan) came together at the Global Snow Leopard Forum (GSLF) initiated by the President Almazbek Atambayev of the Kyrgyz Republic, and the State Agency on Environmental Protection and Forestry under the government of the Kyrgyz Republic." BibekRajShrestha (talk) 14:48, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Nihlus 18:47, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

The request was to add Nepal to the lists of countries. It's hard to see the difference in the two versions. As the text mentioned 12 countries and only listed 11 of the range countries I made the change. The whole section is without a citation, though, so I've added the citation needed template.   Jts1882 | talk  12:47, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

The last line of the first paragraph of this article says that "As of 2016, the global population was estimated at 4,678 to 8,745 mature individuals.[1][3]"

These numbers do not correspond with the numbers in the sources that are provided.

Source [1] in the article (^[1]), in fact states that the number of mature individuals was between 2,710-3,386.

The second source provided, which is a book, rather than a peer-reviewed publication, does not mention the category of "mature individuals" at all, and is therefore not relevant to the numbers provided.

The paragraph also omits the fact that a wide range of population estimates currently exist, and that there is an ongoing dispute in the scientific community as to their respective validity.

For instance, the Global Snow Leopard & Ecosystem Protection Program (GSLEP), in which all snow leopard range countries are represented, estimates the population to be at 3,920 - 6,390 individuals. Source: ^[2]

It is requested that the last line of the paragraph be changed as follows:

"As of 2016, the global population was estimated at 2,710 to 3,386 mature individuals.[1]"

If deemed necessary by the editors, additional information can be added to reflect the fact that there are various, widely different population estimates (as pointed out in source [1] above, but not mentioned in the article, and to further point out that these are all "guesstimates at best", as stated in the Snow Leopard Survival Strategy (^[3]), MatthiasFi (talk) 02:25, 11 March 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MatthiasFi (talk • contribs) 13:10, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of range is incomplete. According to the map, the snow leopard ranges into China, including the regions of Xinjiang Uigur, Inner Mongolia, and, apparently, Gansu. Tibet is mentioned, but that should more correctly be recast as China, specifically, Xizang Zizhiqu region. 2601:589:4B00:7AB:3D5F:87F6:3435:67EC (talk) 02:33, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm unable to locate a citation to confirm:

"Since 2008, it is considered a member of the genus Panthera based on results of genetic studies."

McCarthy and Chapron state in 2003 that it is considered Pantherinae citing articles from 1978 and refer to it as Uncia uncia. See, page 13:

http://www.catsg.org/fileadmin/filesharing/3.Conservation_Center/3.4._Strategies___Action_Plans/Snow_leopard/McCarthy_et_al_2003_Snow_leopard_survival_strategy.pdf

They then later cite articles referring to panthera uncia. First, on page 61 and notably a reference is made to Blomqvist, L. 1978 which refers to the species as panthera uncia.

Furthermore, the wiki article includes an image showing snow leopard as a member of panthera in 2006. The phylogeny section states that snow leopards were identified as related to tigers in 2006, which was confirmed in 2009. But there is no mention there either of 2008 or what would have motivated a move to genus Panthera in 2008.

I'm not sure what the authoritative body for genus placement is, but given the lack of citations, it appears to me that 2008 could be in error. Andwats (talk) 04:03, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

In 2008, the IUCN Red List for snow leopard was updated, and assessors recognised it as a Panthera species. The genetic study referred to is Johnson et al. (2006). -- BhagyaMani (talk) 06:30, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

All the genetic studies linked are 2006. The earliest available assessment from IUCN is 2002 and also seems to indicate the taxonomy Panthera uncia. See:

https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/22732/9381502

To me it looks more accurate to say that there has always been discussion about classification but since genetic studies in 2006, it has been included in Panthera. That consensus is unclear. ITIS, for instance, lists Panther uncia as invalid and then indicates Uncia uncia is the valid taxonomy:

https://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt?search_topic=TSN&search_value=933420#null

Andwats (talk) 16:59, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah to my knowledge the valid taxonic name is still Uncia uncia even though snow leopards are placed in Panthera I can try to take a look to see if some journal articles of this year have come out focused on the snow leopard, and see what binomial name they are using as well. As of right now I believe it is fully accurate.Mcelite (talk) 05:44, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

I think the placement is correct. I don't see a specific date to when that change happened. It seems to have always been considered panthera by some scholars, which is reinforced by genetic studies going back to the 1980s. BhagyaMani edits are appropriate, in my opinion. Andwats (talk) 15:41, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Historically there has been considerable variation on whether the snow leopard got placed in its own genus, Uncia, or got included in Panthera. While all other Panthera species were considered more closely related, this was largely a subjective judgement on where the line should be drawn for different genera. The molecular evidence placing the snow leopard as sister to tiger makes Panthera paraphyletic with respect to Uncia if two genera are used, which is why the snow leopard is now placed in Panthera by recent taxonomic sources. The IUCN Specialist Cat Group taxonomy is now used on all Felidae articles.   Jts1882 | talk  16:46, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

As the article is protected, I suggest here to edit the beginning: Snow panther, often called snow leopard (though not leopard) or sometimes ounce... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemohuman (talk • contribs) 15:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

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203.175.78.174 (talk) 07:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC)                                                                                       I want to make a few minor edits on the Snow leopard in Pakistan.

Ahmad hassan

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --TheImaCow (talk) 10:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Major concerns:

• The exhaustive list of protected areas is unnecessary.
• The gallery of coats of arms is also unnecessary.
• The Taxonomy section needs a Subspecies subsection, as there seems to be some consensus for three subspecies. A discussion/comparison of the physical differences between subspecies could also be added to the Characteristic subsection.
• The lede also needs work, as it does not adequately summarize the article.
• The subsection for the Global Snow Leopard Forum seems unnecessary and overly long, maybe condense/summarize into one paragraph?

Minor concerns:

• Discuss color variation in Characteristics?
• Etymology section could use some clarification/rephrasing.
• There's a so-so source in the Characteristics section ([30]) - it cites NatGeo, but surely a better source could be found?

Possibly expand:

• Distribution & habitat section is a bit short: maybe start with habitat, then cover range by subspecies?
• Characteristics seems a bit short.
• Cultural significance could almost certainly be expanded.

This isn't a shabby article, and with some love (and elbow grease) could pass GAN, possibly even FAC. Granted, I'd suggest getting it peer-reviewed at some point. Happy editing, --SilverTiger12 (talk) 17:28, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

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The article should include ( in the section that informs of the snow leopard's behavior) the fact that the aforementioned creatures cannot roar, editing the end of this sentence: The snow leopard's vocalizations include meowing, grunting, prusten and moaning. It can purr when exhaling.^[1] ExoplanetaryNova (talk) 00:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:00, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Snow Leopard in Hemis National Park.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:38, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

it sux 174.27.1.153 (talk) 06:16, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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^[2][2]=no}}

Add the sentence:

“Heavy predation on domestic livestock appeared to be the likely cause of conflict with the local inhabitants.”
After this sentence: 

“ In the Karakoram, Tian Shan, Altai and Mongolia's Tost Mountains, its main prey consists of Siberian ibex, Thorold's deer (Cervus albirostris), Siberian roe deer (Capreolus pygargus) and argali.” Under the hunting and diet section.

Add the sentence: “Illegal trade in snow leopards (Panthera uncia) has been identified as one of the major threats to long-term survival of the species in the wild.” After the first sentence under the threats section. Pwalu2 (talk) 00:36, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Pwalu2: Your citation is paywalled. There's ways to get around it, but we need the article title to get it to work. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 00:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

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Change “cats” to “felines” Brycej221 (talk) 22:23, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. RudolfRed (talk) 23:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

The article says it is commonly known as the ounce. While this does make sense considering the scientific name, I have never heard this before. Is this true? 68.229.156.13 (talk) 19:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Drsruli (talk) 15:00, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

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Snow leopard's status is now Endangered (IUCN 3.1) and its population trend is changed, not decreasing numbers. WKipedieAnn (talk) 11:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@UtherSRG: Can you look at this editor? They are changing IUCN assessments.  —  Jts1882 | talk  12:53, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Looks like all their changes were incorrect and have already been reverted. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

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I want to add more locations like Pakistan, Tajikistan where snow leopards can be found, i think that this will improve knowledge of the readers! Propagandademolisher (talk) 01:56, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Mellk (talk) 02:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)