Talk:Tea Party protests

Latest version by Editor 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tea_Party_protests&oldid=568335461#Reports_of_abusive_behavior

Latest version by Editor 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tea_Party_protests&oldid=568365883#Reports_of_abusive_behavior

Editor 2 conducted a experiment by emulating the editing-style of Editor 1 here. Though Editor 2 attempted his best impersonation of Editor 1 -- Editor 2 found it difficult to match the POV-pushing and BLP-violating prowess of Editor 1 and fell short. Apparently, that was still more than enough reason for Editor 1 to further their UNDUE editing-pattern here. Editor 1, even while adding more of the trivial, somehow found a way to delete the one of the only references which calls their preferred narrative into question here. While not surprised, Editor 2 is profoundly disappointed with the results as they foolishly believed Editor 1 might finally recognize the error of their own ways. An RfC on Editor 1 also failed to help them see and correct their well-established issues to the determent of this project. I'm calling out for anyone to help before this disruption goes too far. Thanks in advance. †TE†Talk 14:37, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

That's a lot of non-neutral assertions for an RfC. Would you mind re-wording this in a clear, more neutral manner? Xenophrenic (talk) 21:00, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Not sure about this being "non-neutral," but I'm certain it's not untrue (unlike the patently false assertions made against me here). Wish I had the time, but explaining everything that's wrong with your latest preferred version will take all my available resources. Would you mind limiting your blatant BLP violations to a more fixable level? †TE†Talk 00:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

No false assertions about you at that link. Yes, this RfC is non-neutral, unless you are making it about user conduct instead of a content dispute. You should be specific about the exact text you feel constitutes a BLP violation, along with a clear explanation of why you feel it is a violation. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Congressman André Carson said that as he walked from the Cannon House Office Building with Representative John Lewis and his chief of staff, amid chants of "Kill the bill" he heard the "n-word" about fifteen times coming from several places in the crowd: "One guy, I remember he just rattled it off several times. Then John looks at me and says, 'You know, this reminds me of a different time.'"^[1][2][3]

• What's wrong with this is a simple fix. The quote, "One guy, I remember he just rattled it off several times. Then John looks at me and says, 'You know, this reminds me of a different time'" comes from one source only, Jesse Washington. That must be separate from the Kerry Picket transcript. The problem, Editor 1 doesn't approve of this person for whatever reason and goes out of their way to bury the Washington Times reference behind Jesse Washington. Even though it was published weeks earlier. Not sure why the third ref was added but it also doesn't support the quote. To fight my separation of content and refs is just weird, OWNership-type behavior. My suggestion below:

Congressman André Carson said while he was walking down the steps of the Cannon House Office Building with Representative John Lewis and chief of staff, amid chants of "Kill the bill," he heard the "n-word" fifteen times;^[4] "One guy, I remember he just rattled it off several times. Then John looks at me and says, 'You know, this reminds me of a different time.'"^[1]

• Note: Other content could be taken from the interview moments after, like how Carson said he heard the n-word from "fifteen people about fifteen times" instead of the Jesse Washington interview. Or other things he said. That would be a content dispute which I'm not about. This is about policy.

Conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart, who wasn't present at the protests, said the racial slurs and other allegations by Cleaver, Lewis and Carson were fabricated as part of a plan to annihilate the Tea Party movement by all means necessary and that they never actually happened. He offered to donate $10,000 to the United Negro College Fund if Lewis could provide audio or video footage of the slurs, or pass a lie detector test. The amount was later raised to $100,000 for "hard evidence."^[1][5][6]

• The most glaring violation is the false statement that Breitbart "said the racial slurs and other allegations by Cleaver, Lewis and Carson were fabricated." There is no talk of "other allegations," in any of the sources. This exists only in the mind of Editor 1. Breitbart speaks explicitly of the racial slurs, and Cleaver is even named, probably because he wasn't there (see what I did ;-). Anyways, the entire sentence is corrupted -- Now "they never actually happened" also includes these other non-existent, "other allegations." Next up is the bundling stringing of sources, again, which puts the most important to Editor 1, Jesse Washington, first. It's the last published and makes no mention of $10,000 being raised to $100,000. It came some time after the original $10K and should be presented as such. Jesse Washington also made the remark that Breitbart "wasn't there," while no other refs echo this. Contentious statements like that should be attributed. My suggestion below:

Conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart said the allegations of racial slurs by Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) members were fabricated as part of a plan to "annihilate" the Tea Party movement "by all means necessary."^[7] He offered to donate $10,000 to the United Negro College Fund if Lewis could provide audio or video footage of the slurs, or pass a lie detector test.^[8] The amount was later raised to $100,000 by Breitbart,^[9] who wasn't present at the protest.^[1]

• Note: Again this is not a content dispute. I've done nothing to change the meaning, OWNership issues may again be the reason for the edit-warring by Editor 1. Or maybe something more sinister. Editor 1 decided to delete this ref here. (Personal attack removed) -Xenophrenic But apparently it discusses abuse by Harry Reid-supporters at an event in Searchlight, Nevada, which included attendance of an "estimated 20,000 Tea Partiers." Maybe this deserves mention, maybe a section above. What Xenophrenic believes to be a personal attack, his disapproval of neutral and right-leaning sources^{[failed verification]} can be shown through years of edits, or more recently, the removal of two WSJ sources and displacement of a Washington Times source in this section alone. What are the odds, really? †TE†Talk 22:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Representative Heath Shuler of North Carolina backed up his colleagues, telling the Hendersonville (N.C.) Times-News that he too heard slurs. "It was the most horrible display of protesting I have ever seen in my life ... It breaks your heart that the way they display their anger is to spit on a member and use that kind of language," Shuler said.^[10] Three weeks later, after the issue of whether the N-word was used had turned into a political battle and the Associated Press ran a story on the controversy which quoted the previous Times-News report, Shuler changed his story and told the Associated Press that he heard slurs used against Barney Frank, but not Cleaver.^[11][12] In a statement to the AP, Shuler said: "It's obvious that there was a misunderstanding between me and the reporter. Questions have been raised as to why I did not immediately call to correct the paper, but I understand people make mistakes. I spoke to the reporter, James Shea, regarding a number of racial remarks I heard and heard about on that day. We spoke about protesters screaming at me and my colleagues outside, and particularly the bigotry shown toward three members of Congress, Reps. Emanuel Cleaver, John Lewis and Barney Frank. When I discussed a specific instance of a slur that I heard, I was referring to that directed at Barney Frank. The reporter assumed I was speaking of another instance. It is unfortunate and un-American that rather than condemning the racial remarks and slurs made throughout that weekend we are instead focusing on whether one racially charged word was heard or not."^[12][13][14] Opinion writer James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal contacted Shuler's press secretary, who stated the congressman heard slurs used against Barney Frank, but not Cleaver.^[15]

• Screams UNDUE, first off. Sure there's some quotes Editor 1 likes, but come on. Even for a controversy section this is bad. Background on the Heath Shuler story: Small publication said on March 23, he was a witness to the racial slurs. Nobody notices. Jesse Washington includes it in his piece for the AP weeks later on April 13th. Now it's national. James Taranto on April 14th, called Shuler's office to verify -- His press secretary said that Shuler was not walking with Cleaver and did not hear the "N-word." Shuler was with Frank and heard faggot. April 15th, the AP prints a correction. Editor 1 decides to spin it up as Shuler changed his story due to political pressure and was either lying then or now, which the small publication did attempt to claim on April 16th, possibly after consulting their legal team. Still doesn't get prominence over Shuler, WSJ and the AP. Though Editor 1 is much less deceptive in his "three weeks later" SYN than previous versions, it's still garbage as presented and trying to re-add James Taranto to the tail end after being called out for deleting the ref and content is just insulting to our intelligence. My suggestion below:

On April 13, 2010, Associated Press (AP) reported that Heath Shuler of North Carolina had also heard the racial slurs.^[1] This prompted the Wall Street Journal to contact Shuler's press secretary, who stated the congressman heard slurs used against Barney Frank, but not Cleaver.^[16] On April 15th, the AP issued a correction in which Shuler said it was a "misunderstanding" between him and the reporter.^[17]

• Note: The Heath Shuler content really lost its sex appeal once the white guy was no longer corroborating the story of the black guys, but whatever. I just believe all content should be presented in a fair and neutral light, supported by the top RS available.

Richard Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO, corroborated Lewis' version of events during a confrontation with Breitbart at a Harvard Institute of Politics forum by saying, "I watched them spit at people, I watched them call John Lewis the n-word. [...] I witnessed it. I saw it in person. That's real evidence."^[18][19][20]

• This just doesn't belong, IMO. Editor 1 provided their own OR interpretation and transcription to include this non-noteworthy event. Its inclusion originated years ago from their desire to have the Breitbart content, which was reported by secondary sources, removed by coercion in countering it with the video of Trumka, which was not covered by secondary sources. It's just a video on Media Matters and HuffPo, a fake ref inbetween and nothing else of substance. Either both go or both stay, it appears was the goal. My suggestion, it's gone and Breitbart stays. We should rely on the reporting and noteworthiness of secondary sources. Period. †TE†Talk 15:59, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll address each of the above 4 matters in order.

• Regarding your comments on the "Carson" material:

Yes, Jesse Washington and Kerry Picket are each "one source only". I don't see where you were going with that. Both sources cover the Carson events, and the fact that one source was published before the other source has no bearing here on reliability, weight or usefulness of the sources. Also, I've never indicated that I "don't approve of this person (Picket)", and I've never "buried" a source, so it would be great if you would stop perpetuating that line of fantasy. I did bring to your attention that her transcription of the audio clip is flawed, and I also noted that she is not a journalist, but a politics opinion writer/blogger associated with Breitbart and MRC. Given Breitbart's history with creative use of recordings, and his untenable stance in this matter, I only raised this information to convey to you that a little care when using this source would be a good thing. And by the way, no one "owns" a Wikipedia article; you've been here long enough to learn that. With that out of the way, let's look at the different versions of text. After examining the three cited sources, it is clear that the slurs were heard from multiple locations as they travelled, and not just "while he was walking down the steps". It is also clear that he estimated "about" 15 times (even on the audio clip).

• Regarding your comments on the "Breitbart" conspiracy theories material:

You identify the text "other allegations" (that would be the spitting) as the most glaring violation. Breitbart did indeed briefly rant about that other allegation:

The proof that the N-word wasn’t said once, let alone 15 times, as Rep. Andre Carson claimed, is that soon thereafter — even though the press dutifully reported it as truth — Nancy Pelosi followed the alleged hate fest, which allegedly included someone spitting, by walking through the crowd with a gavel in hand and a shit-eating grin on her face. Had the incidentS reported by the Congressional Black Caucus actually occurred the Capitol Police would have been negligent to allow the least popular person to that crowd – the Speaker – to put herself in harm’s way.

You also appear to have a problem with the ordering of multiple citations at the end of a sentence. I have no preference over which source appears before another, as long as they all appear, so feel free to order them to your preference. On the related matter of duplicating the same ref after each and every sentence in a paragraph, I prefer instead to have a single citation at the end of the paragraph, especially when the whole of that paragraph is about the same content. Is there an applicable policy regarding this? re: "Breitbart wasn't there" -- factual, non-contentous, and as you noted, it was conveyed by a reliable source. Is there any reason, in your opinion, why it should not appear with the first mention of Breitbart? All the other people we are quoting were present at the protests, and have made first-hand observations. Lastly, I removed the WSJ opinion piece simply because it is an opinion piece, and it was redundant to actual reliable sources for the assertion of fact already present in the article. The Nevada rally info is in the Breitbart cite, by the way, so that blows your theory. Why is it you can't get through a single paragraph without personally attacking a fellow editor?

• Regarding the "Heath Shuler" comments:

Your recounting of events is only half-correct. Shuler was there at the protests, and then was interviewed by his home-town paper, which has done more stories on Shuler than any other publication. Shuler said he heard the slurs, so the paper reported that. Three weeks later, an Associated Press reporter does a piece on the "N-word" controversy and mentions Shuler's corroboration of the accusations. The piece is AP-syndicated, and appears in ABC, CBS, Yahoo, NBC, etc., publications. Shuler told the AP (April 14) there must be a misunderstanding, as he didn't hear the racial slurs, only anti-gay slurs. The AP then (April 15) did not "print a correction", but instead reported that Shuler now "denies" hearing the racial slurs. The Times-News also ran that AP story. Please be careful about misusing "print a correction", which has a very specific meaning in print journalism -- there was no correction here (as you were already informed above). The following day (April 16), after checking interview notes, verifying interview recordings and consulting with their editors, the full staff printed a follow-up titled, Shuler changes story on what he heard at health care protests - Congressman now says he heard slurs directed at Frank, not Cleaver. Note the explicit lack of corrections, apologies or admission of error. The report says, in no uncertain terms, U.S. Rep. Heath Shuler is distancing himself from comments he made to the Times-News last month, stating he heard racial slurs yelled from a crowd of angry health care protesters... It doesn't say "oops, we made an error, here's what Shuler actually said". The AP says Shuler now "denies" his previous account, and the Times-News says Shuler "changes his story" and "distances himself" from his previous account. Yet you, ThinkEnemies, make this ridiculous charge: "Editor 1 decides to spin it up as Shuler changed his story". Personal attacks that misrepresent your fellow editors like that are going to get you into hot water again, TE.

Citing the opinion writer, Taranto, to reiterate that Shuler changed his claim - that's redundant, but I included it because you seemed insistent - and I properly attributed it (rather than make it sound like the Wall Street Journal was conveying it as a news story). If we're going to have the whole Breitbart/Shuler/Trumka/CBC Congressmen debacle, my preference would be to simply state that Shuler corroborated the slurs. Second choice would be to include that he later changed his story after the AP ran a new piece on the now controversial hot-potato N-Word event.

• Regarding your comments on the "Trumka" content:

I understand that you would like to see the Trumka content disappear. Breitbart published his conspiracy theories, Trumka refuted them (they even did this face-to-face), and you would like only half of that to appear in our article. My preference would be to have neither of them in our article. Take a clue from Zernike, who in her book notes only that "conservatives denied that it happened", and leave out the he-said, she-said. Breitbart, Shuler, Trumka ... all of that is unencyclopedic minutia and clutter, as I mentioned above. But if you are going to insist on inserting half-stories, like Breitbart's theories, what problem do you have with the full story being told? Xenophrenic (talk) 20:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

• On Kerry Picket at the Washington Times: Ignoring your petty little ad-homs directed at her and Breitbart -- What about André Carson said while he was walking down the steps of the Cannon House Office Building with Representative John Lewis and chief of staff, amid chants of "Kill the bill," he heard the "n-word" fifteen times would you like to pretend is flawed?

• On attributing quotes to sources which do not support said quote. Don't do it. Ever. You can't keep ignoring this obvious violation.

• On your OR/SYN that "which allegedly included someone spitting," means that Breitbart is denying the incident ever occurred. It's best not to claim contentious things not clearly stated in the sources. It's kinda like trying to convince me that organizing and funding really means "astroturfing" when it's not explicitly stated. No dice.

• On your preference to string refs at the end of paragraphs. Yes, there are policy guidelines: "For example, when there are multiple sources for a given sentence, and each source applies to the entire sentence, the sources can be placed at the end of the sentence, like this.[4][5][6][7] Or they can be bundled into one footnote at the end of the sentence or paragraph, like this.[4]" Now a good wiki-lawyer will find another statement which contradicts this in 30 seconds, but common sense reigns supreme and when editors cannot achieve summary-style writing, or they rely heavily on contentious sourcing, which brings about contentious content, it's best to attribute statements of that nature. I've explained this.

• On Jesse Washington saying Breitbart wasn't there. It was a great lead-in to the Carson quote saying: "I was there." However, It's not supported by the other cited sources. If it's so important to you, try this who wasn't there[1]. Happy?

• On opinion sources not being cool unless they they jive with your own opinions. Whatever floats your boat. One problem with this lame excuse for removing WSJ sources are they have not been used for opinion. Even if they were, if properly attributed and noteworthy it's all good.

• On the AP contacting Shuler after James Taranto got to his press secretary first. You may deny it, but that's what happened. You think a 24/7 newswire would be a day behind some lowly "opinion writer" at the WSJ in their publishing? LMAO. That's adorable. On the correction, I'm not opposed to calling it a clarification or even using "reported" as you suggested. It actually was their first direct reporting with Shuler, as they stated: "The Associated Press, after Shuler's office did not return phone calls or e-mails, quoted the News-Times report in a story on the controversy over whether racial slurs had been shouted." However, there is no "now denies" in their corrections here and here. Nice try.

• On your fantasy of: "The following day (April 16), after checking interview notes, verifying interview recordings and consulting with their editors, the full staff printed a follow-up titled, Shuler changes story on what he heard at health care protests - Congressman now says he heard slurs directed at Frank, not Cleaver." It's quite imaginative, more than me mentioning conversations with their legal team, if they have one. Could just be an ambulance chaser for all I know. Do you have intimate knowledge on the situation? I doubt it. Anyways, Shuler, WSJ and the AP all trump some small time publication.

• On how your "preference would be to have neither of them [Breitbart or Trumka] in our article." First, it's not your article nor is it mine, definitely not ours. Second, I didn't make the Breitbart content notable to MSM and I certainly didn't force them to ignore Trumka's amazing story of shapeshifting. I mean, to be at these three seperate events in time without anyone seeing him is quite astounding. Truly. I wonder why nobody cared enough to even have an intern write something up.

Now you may find me to be somewhat abrasive, but just look at the foolishness you present. Your disruptive actions and lack of coherent rationale would make even Ned Flanders blow a head gasket. †TE†Talk 22:45, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I can live with your abrasiveness. It's the misrepresentation of situations and the misapplication of policy that get annoying. Have you figured out yet that my Trumka quote from the Harvard forum is not OR?

• What about [insert one paraphrase from one part of one source here] would you like to pretend is flawed?

Nothing. There are some actual flaws with using that wording, however. There are several sources that describe that event (and even the "15 times" bit is said three different ways in just the audio clip) which need to be taken into account when we describe the event. That is what I've done with my proposed text.

Congressman André Carson said that as he walked from the Cannon House Office Building with Representative John Lewis and his chief of staff, amid chants of "Kill the bill" he heard the "n-word" about fifteen times coming from several places in the crowd...

is more comprehensive than

André Carson said while he was walking down the steps of the Cannon House Office Building with Representative John Lewis and chief of staff, amid chants of "Kill the bill," he heard the "n-word" fifteen times...

• Don't do it. Ever.

Never have.

• On your OR/SYN that "which allegedly included someone spitting," means that Breitbart is denying the incident ever occurred.

It's not OR when the cited source says so. Here's the text from the source, again:

The proof that the N-word wasn’t said once, let alone 15 times, as Rep. Andre Carson claimed, is that soon thereafter — even though the press dutifully reported it as truth — Nancy Pelosi followed the alleged hate fest, which allegedly included someone spitting, by walking through the crowd with a gavel in hand and a shit-eating grin on her face. Had the incidents reported by the Congressional Black Caucus actually occurred the Capitol Police would have been negligent to allow the least popular person to that crowd – the Speaker – to put herself in harm’s way.

Note what Breitbart offers as "proof" is that Pelosi wouldn't have walked through what he describes as the "hate fest" if those incidents - including someone 'allegedly' spitting, according to him - actually occurred. Yes, Breitbart is saying it didn't happen. Rather than using "racial slurs and other allegations by..." we can try simply "incidents reported by...", just to get past one of these hurdles.

• On your preference to string refs at the end of paragraphs. Yes, there are policy guidelines...

Let's try the one you quoted.

• If it's so important to you, try this who wasn't there[1].

As noted above, it's not "so important to me". It is apparently important enough that the reliable source thought it needed to be said, and we are to convey what reliable sources convey. That is important to me. So you suggest saying "who wasn't there" instead of "who wasn't present"? If that means you'll take down another hurdle, sure.

• On opinion sources not being cool unless they they jive with your own opinions. Whatever floats your boat.

And again you have misrepresented the situation. Opinion pieces are not cool with Wikipedia for assertion of fact. They can be used as sources for the opinions of the writer, if properly attributed. You were attempting to cite assertions of fact, stated in Wikipedia's voice, to opinion pieces, which is against policy. It was also unnecessary for some content, as reliable sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy were available.

• On the AP contacting Shuler after James Taranto got to his press secretary first. You may deny it...

Gee, thanks for the permission, but why would I, or why would I care? And who says the AP contacted Shuler? Or are you talking about Washington, before his report on the 13th, when Shuler's office wouldn't return calls?

• On the correction, I'm not opposed to calling it a clarification or even using "reported" as you suggested.

You do that, just as soon as they issue a correction. Since it has been over three years, and they still haven't issued a single correction, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

• there is no "now denies"

Correct, and I never said there was. The AP reported that Shuler now "denies" it. Check your links.

• Do you have intimate knowledge on the situation? I doubt it.

Intimate? No. I do recall seeing the Sunday political round-table TV show clip where the issue was discussed, and it was mentioned that the reporter had audio from his interview with Shuler, resulting in that strongly worded article from the Times-News -- an article that was never rebutted, and further requests for a follow-up interview on the matter were declined. I wonder why. We could fire off an email to the paper and ask, but that would be original research.

• Anyways, Shuler, WSJ and the AP all trump some small time publication.

No, they don't. In fact, Taranto, the AP and the Times-News don't appear to disagree at all. All three of them convey that Shuler (or his spokesperson) now states he heard anti-gay slurs but denies hearing racial slurs, and there must have been a "misunderstanding". None of the three say that Shuler didn't claim to hear racial slurs while he was with Cleaver back in March.

• First, it's not your article nor is it mine, definitely not ours.

Sorry to hear that. I refer to it as "our article", speaking as a member of the Wikipedia community, but no one can force you to collaborate. Xenophrenic (talk) 16:15, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

You never did respond to my inquiry: Would you be interested in helping to trim this down to a more encyclopedic presentation, instead of the current "he said/she said" script of inconsequential events? Xenophrenic (talk) 16:15, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Actually, one of them now says that he didn't hear racial slurs, and that he said that he didn't hear racial slurs the first time. I think we need to remove "change his story", or go into full details as to which conflicting source said what. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:53, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

"Changes story" is in the title of an article, not in the body. Titles are not reliable. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:07, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

What he said was, "I spoke to the reporter, James Shea, regarding a number of racial remarks I heard and heard about on that day." -- and that is confusing in itself; did he hear some, and hear about others? He never says "he didn't hear racial slurs". He does say later, however, "When I discussed a specific instance of a slur that I heard, I was referring to that directed at Barney Frank. The reporter assumed I was speaking of another instance."

Since you are here, Arthur, what's your opinion about the "encyclopedia-worthiness" of all this "this paper reports this, and that witness says that, and this other person says he doesn't believe it, etc." detail? Xenophrenic (talk) 19:36, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

I really don't like any of it. A heard it, B and C report that D heard it, E was reported to have heard it but now denies it, F (who wasn't there) said it was fabricated, and it's not recorded. (Out here on left coast, someone would have had his/her iPhone on record.) If we are to avoid NPOV violations or deciding on the relative reliability of conflicting reliable sources, I think we're just going to have to drop it down to one sentence, on the order of "Some Congressmen were reported to have heard racist remarks and the 'n- word'. I was originally in favor of removing the whole thing as not being important, but it's still being discussed in reliable sources. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:27, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment. This RfC is a trainwreck of personal attacks, passive-aggressive trolling, topped off with a non-neutral summary. I move that it be closed and a new one start... preferably by someone capable of writing a neutral summary of the situation. What a waste of time. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:40, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I've already considered it closed, might as well make it official. This RfC was an attempt to get some involved editors to chime in. It failed in that sense but much was accomplished in documenting a POV-warrior's will to remove sources he doesn't personally agree with and a narrative he finds contradictory to his own. This editor's OWNership issues have kept many away and I wasn't surprised with the lack of interest. I'm sure there are links to the current ArbCom if you wish to opine. †TE†Talk 22:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Taking a good look at the recent developments, it appears my work here is done. I'd like to thank Xenophrenic (talk · contribs) for being such a willing participant in my evidence collection. This process has been an especially difficult one for me, probably a few peccadilloes along the way but I'm sufficiently satisfied with the results -- Which are free for anyone to use if they so choose. Regards ;-) †TE†Talk 15:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Nobody actually said that, except in a title. He says he was misquoted, and the original quote was "corrected" in at least some of the reliable sources. I changed it to "misquoted", but another alternative might be found.

This falls under WP:BLP, so I will continue to remove it when it appears. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:50, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does say in the headline that he changed his story. It also says in at least some of the reliable sources that he claims he was misquoted, but not a single source claims to have reported anything in error and there have been no corrections. The report further explains that "Shuler is distancing himself from comments he made to the Times-News last month, stating he heard racial slurs yelled from a crowd of angry health care protesters outside the U.S. Capitol." I'll make that clear in the article. All content about living persons falls under WP:BLP, but if you intend to cite that policy as justification to revert-war, you'll need to actually explain what you think the specific violation is -- which you have not done thus far. Xenophrenic (talk) 19:07, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Including controversial material about living persons, not included in reliable sources is a WP:BLP violation. The first source said "distancing himself from", and the second said "denied he said...". Although both are sourced, denied is probably less controversial. I'm not claiming the current version (distancing) is a BLP violation, but the former was, so, for WP:EW purposes, my next edit is the first to this article for some time. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

You kids and your new math. That is your second batch of edits to the article in a long time (both made within the last 24 hours). You said the Times-News (Blue Ridge) source doesn't add anything to the article, and you started removing it (and the content from that source), however, you missed some of it. I cleaned up the rest of that source from the article for you. I don't necessarily agree with you that the Blue Ridge Times-News source doesn't add anything to the article - it adds the whole backstory about politicians changing their stances based on political expediency - but perhaps that goes too far astray from the scope of this article. James Shea and Heath Shuler are both still living, as far as I can tell, and Wikipedia should remain neutral where they are concerned. That content is now back to its neutral one sentence, long-standing form that it has been in for at least the past 2 years before recent editing. Xenophrenic (talk) 10:56, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I said that particular Blue Ridge source doesn't add to the material, since all the material except something (contradicted by other sources) about the "changed story" is reported in other sources already present, including another Blue Ridge source. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Tea Party protests. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090210141817/http://www.readingeagle.com:80/article.aspx?id=102758 to http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=102758
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090617061008/http://www.freep.com:80/article/20090614/NEWS15/906140540/Fair+Tax+plan+wins+big+at+convention+ to http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/NEWS15/906140540/Fair+Tax+plan+wins+big+at+convention+
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090914153750/http://www.foxnews.com:80/politics/2009/09/12/tea-party-express-arrives-march-washington-protest-government-spending/ to http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/12/tea-party-express-arrives-march-washington-protest-government-spending/

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Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 09:39, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 6 external links on Tea Party protests. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090210141817/http://www.readingeagle.com:80/article.aspx?id=102758 to http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=102758
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090315052030/http://www.eastvalleytribune.com:80/story/135640 to http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/135640/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090530043120/http://www.kpvi.com:80/Global/story.asp?S=10422719 to http://www.kpvi.com/Global/story.asp?S=10422719
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090610161422/http://www2.journalnow.com:80/content/2009/jun/06/hundreds-turn-out-local-tea-party-rally/news/ to http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/jun/06/hundreds-turn-out-local-tea-party-rally/news/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090617061008/http://www.freep.com:80/article/20090614/NEWS15/906140540/Fair+Tax+plan+wins+big+at+convention+ to http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/NEWS15/906140540/Fair+Tax+plan+wins+big+at+convention+
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090918072442/http://online.wsj.com:80/article/SB125276685577405975.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular to http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125276685577405975.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

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Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:34, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Would the IP editor who made this edit mind explaining their rationale behind it? Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 18:12, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Tea party Indianapolis flyer 2007.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:17, 30 June 2021 (UTC)